tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post332262055168167649..comments2024-03-27T11:42:13.364+10:00Comments on JungleWatch: APURON FOUND NOT GUILTY Frenchiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05189311368021711422noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-32649901741590151422017-03-02T01:13:18.497+10:002017-03-02T01:13:18.497+10:00The Vatican's child protection Commission has ...The Vatican's child protection Commission has ceased to exist.<br /><br />An online article in today's National Catholic Reporter says that the short-lived Commission's lone survivor has resigned because she has no faith in it. As I recall, all of the Commission's Papal appointees are victims of abuse by pedophile priests.<br /><br />That Commission was always a colossal PR smokescreen. Francis just gave it lip service and turned it over to coverup artist O'Malley who enforced nothing. When other victim-Commissioners called out Rome on its lies and deceit last year, they tried to publicly discredit them and the people resigned in disgust.<br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-34057216631503453462017-03-01T16:36:04.482+10:002017-03-01T16:36:04.482+10:00"Yes, this is the likely outcome if Walter De..."Yes, this is the likely outcome if Walter Denton, Roy Quintanilla, and Roland Sondia do not testify before the Canonical Trial of Apuron being speedily conducted by the Vatican." But when they interview Abp Apuron, he will be found out. I don't think he is that good an actor. He will surely be found out. So, I don't think Abp Apuron can get out of this only because the victims didnt testify before the visiting team.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-7353805146417972122017-02-26T06:18:56.102+10:002017-02-26T06:18:56.102+10:00Anon 11:18 AM >>for clarification purposes &...Anon 11:18 AM >>for clarification purposes "AP" stands for Associated Press, as in one of the national press syndications. Thanks to all the national coverage on Washinston Post news groups as well. And for us picketing every Sunday morning, rain or shine, we are helping to move the VATICAN toward resolving and inventual conclusion of Apuron's Tribunal Case. Let's march on with our PRAYERFUL picketing one Sunday at a time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-34831895077060087062017-02-25T18:23:54.882+10:002017-02-25T18:23:54.882+10:00He was not sent to work on anyone. He was not part...He was not sent to work on anyone. He was not part of the group which came to Guam. Plus he cannot interrogate anybody. In a canonical trial that the job of the judges. Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305960063884511003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-10243361653827948892017-02-25T15:35:46.415+10:002017-02-25T15:35:46.415+10:00Tim, no one said that Geisinger is interrogating A...Tim, no one said that Geisinger is interrogating Apuron. We know he was sent to work on Roland.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-57783437819951862132017-02-25T13:11:43.909+10:002017-02-25T13:11:43.909+10:00Burke is.Burke is.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305960063884511003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-19059770131718058882017-02-25T13:08:47.770+10:002017-02-25T13:08:47.770+10:00He's not interrogating Apuron.He's not interrogating Apuron. Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305960063884511003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-57768690021238253842017-02-25T13:06:54.221+10:002017-02-25T13:06:54.221+10:00Canon lawyers don't. And that was the point.Canon lawyers don't. And that was the point. Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305960063884511003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-11436767231254695852017-02-25T11:22:07.019+10:002017-02-25T11:22:07.019+10:00If this is a personal injury case, P.I. lawyers in...If this is a personal injury case, P.I. lawyers in the US customarily work on a contingency fee basis. No big deal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-35712495940724573742017-02-25T11:18:33.018+10:002017-02-25T11:18:33.018+10:00Lujan could have dealt the Vatican investigators a...Lujan could have dealt the Vatican investigators a major blow simply by advertising Geisinger's duplicity again. AP already did the footwork. He's a proven pedophile sympathizer who should not be interrogating Apuron's victims.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-13800511454304615702017-02-25T10:52:37.734+10:002017-02-25T10:52:37.734+10:00Why should he have known? That's not his job. ...Why should he have known? That's not his job. His job is win compensation for Roland (and himself of course), not to discredit the Vatican investigators. He has nothing to gain on that front. Roland and the others should have had a canon lawyer as well as a civil one. <br /><br />But lawyers cost money, even canon lawyers. Lujan is working on a contingency basis. Also, the most we knew about any canonical proceedings against Apuron were the few acknowledgments to the press by Byrnes. But other than saying the trial has started, Byrnes offered no other information, not even any information that the Burke party would be coming to Guam in investigate. <br /><br />In fact, had not Roland showed Lujan the letter he received and Lujan's giving it to the press. No one would have known except Roland. Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305960063884511003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-14637895515422205772017-02-25T10:44:39.013+10:002017-02-25T10:44:39.013+10:00In general I am suspicious of any Francis appointe...In general I am suspicious of any Francis appointee. The Vatican appears to be in greater disarray than during the time of Vatileaks and the resignation of Benedict. As for Geisinger, sad to say, I am even more suspicious of anyone with an S.J. after their name. <br /><br />But specific to the McGuire case, I am even more suspicious and hesitant to get off track on that. You won't find this easily on the internet now, but back when the case first came to the fore, there was a lot of suspicion that McGuire was thrown to the wolves by his own order. Not that McGuire was innocent (though he has never conceded guilt). But it became very obvious during the trial that he was poorly represented. <br /><br />McGuire was a arch conservative in an order that has led the Left in this Church for decades. There appeared to be several other allegations against Jesuits at the time, and McGuire may have been the red meat the "jezzies" threw to the wolves to take them off the trail of their more liberal friends. It appears to have worked. <br /><br />Stranger still is what the judge said upon sentencing the 76 year old priest to 25 years in prison:<br /><br />"I want any such person to know the system of justice, and this judge personally, finds it absolutely abhorrent," He committed a very, very serious sin."<br /><br />The judge was the daughter of a Lutheran minister. <br /><br />At any rate, I believe we need to understand more about the Geisinger's role in all this before we spend any more time on him. So far it appears that it is Burke who will control the proceedings. Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305960063884511003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-16293085426359533052017-02-25T07:11:45.814+10:002017-02-25T07:11:45.814+10:00Thank you, CNMI Lawyer. That article does not sit ...Thank you, CNMI Lawyer. That article does not sit well with Lujan fans. He should have known who he was up against and played his cards to Roland's advantage. He missed a huge opportunity to seriously discredit the Vatican investigators. Geisinger is the main one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-45173486970825525412017-02-24T21:05:56.651+10:002017-02-24T21:05:56.651+10:00I am not the person criticizing Father Robert J. G...I am not the person criticizing Father Robert J. Geisinger, S.J., but the allegations have previously been commented upon in this blog and were widely reported.<br /><br /><i>See</i> Michael Rezendes, “Top Vatican prosecutor failed to report abuser”, <a href="https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/11/22/vatican-new-top-prosecutor-abusive-priests-implicated-past-failure-stop-notorious-abuser-donald-mcguire/gPaBPJUdvuTy5PSTl1j5sM/story.html" rel="nofollow">Boston Globe</a>, Sun., 23 Nov 2014.<br /><br />It is behind a paywall, with 5 free views. I had never visited the site, and thus downloaded the article. This link will not work, if the site has been accessed more than five times.<br /><br />The article was also summarized in <a href="https://cruxnow.com/church/2014/11/23/top-vatican-prosecutor-failed-to-report-abuser/" rel="nofollow">Crux</a>.CNMI Lawyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-67584179895313673022017-02-24T17:06:55.495+10:002017-02-24T17:06:55.495+10:00I disagree with your insurance defense analogy. B...I disagree with your insurance defense analogy. But I do appreciate your comment, all your comments help this readership. However, sex abuse in the church...honestly why trust anything coming from the Vatican on this subject. The Pope refrocked a priest and the church has notoriously unclean hands on its self-governance in handling these matters. Only the local and federal courts have any real teeth to institute a change. See the settlement agreement between theach Ramsey County, MN prosecutor's office and the local diocese. Here are snippets from the Maryland rules of prof. Conduct: the subject matter just needs to relate.<br /><br />https://govt.westlaw.com/mdc/Document/N2D424DE03C0211E6BDB8F71DBFB0E872?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)&bhcp=1<br /><br />[1] This Rule contributes to the proper functioning of the legal system by protecting a person who has chosen to be represented by an attorney in a matter against possible overreaching by other attorneys who are participating in the matter, interference by those attorneys with the attorney-client relationship, and the UNCOUNSELED disclosure of information RELATING to the representation.<br />5] This Rule applies to communications with any person, whether or NOT A PARTY to a formal adjudicative proceeding, contract, or negotiation, who is represented by an attorney concerning the matter to which the communication RELATES. The Rule applies even though the represented person initiates or consents to the communication. An attorney must immediately terminate communication with a person if, after commencing communication, the attorney learns that the person is one with whom communication is not permitted by this Rule.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-30426712865281575072017-02-24T15:43:35.584+10:002017-02-24T15:43:35.584+10:00Here is the original comment: Fr. xxxxx has a long...Here is the original comment: Fr. xxxxx has a long history of covering up pedophile priests. He's worse than Fr. Conn and he shouldn't be working on the Apuron abuse cases. <br /><br />I'm asking you to put the original comment and the reference together in a new comment. Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305960063884511003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-89027749627665088002017-02-24T15:08:26.524+10:002017-02-24T15:08:26.524+10:00That was it. Just Google the title quoted and you&...That was it. Just Google the title quoted and you'll get the November 2014 AP article with Geisinger's name leading off in the title. <br /><br />As mentioned, my apology for the Cut and Paste commands that aren't working on this device.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-88953266726545689572017-02-24T13:27:07.437+10:002017-02-24T13:27:07.437+10:00The original comment bashing Geisinger and the AP ...The original comment bashing Geisinger and the AP article so people know what you are talking about. Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305960063884511003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-54567946888164669552017-02-24T13:02:08.596+10:002017-02-24T13:02:08.596+10:00Please clarify. I gave you the complete Associated...Please clarify. I gave you the complete Associated Press article reference in one comment. Dateline, title and subtitle. <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-27818919088473475982017-02-24T12:45:20.228+10:002017-02-24T12:45:20.228+10:00Please resubmit your original comment along with t...Please resubmit your original comment along with the reference you just submitted so it is all one comment. Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305960063884511003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-62328212661929000012017-02-24T11:42:07.273+10:002017-02-24T11:42:07.273+10:00Burke was actually prohibited from speaking with L...Burke was actually prohibited from speaking with Lujan. I'll ask Bob Klitzkie to explain in greater detail, but I believe CNMI Lawyer has already addressed this. Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305960063884511003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-32090464944990866752017-02-24T11:41:23.391+10:002017-02-24T11:41:23.391+10:00So, if we can provide a reason for Cardinal Burke ...So, if we can provide a reason for Cardinal Burke to come back, most likely Fr. Conn won't be able to accompany him? Would that make it easier for the accusers and their lawyer(s) to participate in the Vatican investigation? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-50496901717611506512017-02-24T11:39:01.296+10:002017-02-24T11:39:01.296+10:00To the person making allegations about Geisinger. ...To the person making allegations about Geisinger. I will post if you cite specific and documentable examples. Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305960063884511003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-77418939669586356592017-02-24T09:34:02.188+10:002017-02-24T09:34:02.188+10:00Parallel proceedings under canon law (part 2)
Her...<b>Parallel proceedings under canon law (part 2)</b><br /><br />Here is how I interpret the foregoing expert commentary. (I am not a canon lawyer, so if anyone has more authoritative guidance, such as a citation to the CJC, I am all ears.)<br /><br />When a U.S. Attorney is aware of evidence suggesting health care fraud, close to the outset, he or she can decide to launch a criminal prosecution, a civil suit, or both.<br /><br />When a military Convening Authority learns of a breach of military discipline, options include Article 15 Non-Judicial Punishment and several levels of court-martial (Summary, Special, and General).<br /><br />In the U.S., charges are filed or preferred fairly early on in the judicial process, which is considered separate from the prior investigative process by the likes of the FBI, Office of the Inspector General, or Criminal Investigative Service (albeit in coordination with the USAO or Convening Authority). Charges can be dismissed or instituted later, but this is not the norm. Decisions about which parallel procedural track(s) to take are made relatively early.<br /><br />Not so under canon law, not so! At least when a bishop is the client of the Procurator-Advocate.<br /><br />It seems that in these cases (and maybe others?) the deciding authority (here, the Pope) reserves to himself the final decision whether to exercise administrative action or judicial action fairly late in the parallel processes, or even at their conclusion. <br /><br />Hence, it seems that the investigative phases of a canon law judicial trial can be intertwined with the administrative process. It would appear that the presence of the Auditor is to gather information for the latter.<br /><br />Ultimately, the Tribunal and the Auditor will each give their own separate recommendations to the Pope (without discussing them with each other), who will make the final decision. <br /><br />Similarly, the presence of the Promoter of Justice (prosecutor) and Procurator-Advocate (defense counsel for Archbishop Apuron) at a deposition is to gather information for inclusion in their final submission to the Tribunal. Not, as Rose has pointed out, to cross-examine the witness (though they may suggest questions to the judge beforehand).<br /><br />Very efficient. <br /><br />And very charitably protective of the privacy rights of survivors & victims -- unlike the common law system where they have to re-live their ordeal in public.<br /><br />In the U.S. it is almost unheard of for an entire trial to be held “under seal” (in secret). The U.S. was founded on the idea that an all-powerful State was to be avoided at all costs. Hence, defendants have considerably greater rights than victims.<br /><br />In civil law jurisdictions, including the Vatican, the concern about State overreach is far lower. Hence, victims have greater rights, most especially in their privacy.<br /><br />Let us pray that those who have suffered take advantage of these rights available under the parallel proceedings of canon law.CNMI Lawyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5652940417109665141.post-67945505019317510752017-02-24T09:30:35.800+10:002017-02-24T09:30:35.800+10:00Parallel proceedings under canon law (part 1)
I h...<b>Parallel proceedings under canon law (part 1)</b><br /><br />I have commented on the existence of “parallel proceedings” in the secular sphere, e.g., criminal, civil, and military. And in my ethics comment below, I note the parallel nature of the District Court of Guam cases with the Tribunal of the First Instance in the Catholic canon law judicial system.<br /><br />Attorney Rose de los Reyes has previously pointed out the existence of parallel proceedings within the canon law system, such as criminal and civil. What had not been clear to me earlier, despite Frenchie alluding to it, and unlike the English-based common law system, is that it appears under canon law, a <b>single hearing may serve both tracks of a parallel proceeding</b>.<br /><br />Contrary to my earlier erroneous inference from a report by the <i>Guam Daily Post</i>, Father Conn is not working on behalf of, with, or as the Procurator-Advocate (defense counsel for Archbishop Apuron).<br /><br />However, that does not necessarily mean that Father Conn is working on behalf of, with, or as the Promoter of Justice (prosecutor), either.<br /><br />In fact, reporter Haired V. Eugenio of the <i>Guam Pacific Daily News</i> on <a href="http://www.guampdn.com/story/news/2017/02/08/canon-lawyer-apuron-trial-outcome-likely-stay-secret/97631120" rel="nofollow">7 February 2017</a> quoted canon law expert Patrick J. Wall as predicting that Father Conn would likely serve as the Pope’s “Auditor”:<br /><br /><i>“Wall said Pope Francis has two options in the Apuron trial — administrative action or judicial action — after the pope's appointed auditor, or investigator, gathers and presents the facts. Wall said a likely candidate to serve as the pope's auditor is Reverend James Conn, a professor of Canon Law at the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome, and professor of the Practice of Canon Law at Boston College.<br /><br />“If the pope takes administrative action, Wall said, he can instruct the Congregation for Bishops to order Apuron to a life of prayer and penance in a Capuchin monastery far from Guam.<br /><br /> * * * *<br /><br />“If the pope takes judicial action, he may instruct the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and Cardinal Gerhard Mueller, as Prefect, to proceed, following the Sacramentum Santitatis Tutela, Wall said.<br /><br />“‘Mueller will then appoint Chicago Jesuit, Reverend Robert Geisinger S.J., J.C.D. as promoter of justice to instruct the matter,’ Wall said. ‘Archbishop Apuron will be informed in writing of the charges and advised to retain a canonist — a canon lawyer who will defend him and submit paperwork on his behalf to the Vatican.’<br /><br />“Wall said, ‘The Promoter of Justice or his delegate will build on the auditors’ investigation and delve deeper into the facts and circumstances, including taking depositions and gathering documents from Guam.’” </i><br />CNMI Lawyernoreply@blogger.com