FILE - In this November, 2014 file photo, Archbishop Anthony Apuron stands in front of the Dulce Nombre de Maria Cathedral Basilica in Hagatna, Guam. The Catholic Church on Guam has been devastated by allegations that its longtime archbishop sexually abused altar boys. But even before the scandal broke, Guam's church was torn over another divisive issue, the presence of a controversial lay movement on the island _ that became so toxic that a community of nuns fled for the mainland U.S. in despair. (AP Photo/Grace Garces Bordallo, File) CONTINUED
To my way of thinking there are two basic groups of people in the NCW. There are those who have access to the catechesis and who hold the power of the members and there are the members who are kept in the dark and led by the nose believing everything they are told!
ReplyDeleteThe second group may well be thinking something is not right here-we have been suckered! But no surely not look at all the good things that have happened to us since joining the NCW???
The Church, and that includes all of us, need to be merciful to these people and realise that they need help, support and prayers!
Those in the know in the NCW, those with power, will have to give an account of their activities. We need to pray for them and hope that they will repent and convert. The truth is coming out and all because of a few brave men!
We were put in suspended animation.
DeletePlease urge all bishops to prepare letters naming members at their own request releasing them from all holds, binds, bonds, vows, oaths, promises, covenants etc made in the context of the "way".
Ask these bishops to publicise the existence of these letters.
What is bound on earth is bound in heaven. The NCW neither have any safeguarding officers nor take any notice of anyone else's. All their members are vulnerable by definition.
Please pray that all ex-members will get their own mutual debriefing and mutual support places. Thank you.
This is a well-written balanced piece. Thanks for posting it, Tim, or I would have missed reading it.
ReplyDeleteTo Fr. Deck’s points that (1) “… the Way is a new church reality” and that (2) "[t]he positive thing to say is that it represents one among many movements in the church that is offering a way to be Catholic and a way to be Christian that is more demanding, that is deeper, that is more engaged, than what you find in many everyday Catholics.” As to the special circumstance of how the NCW applies to Guam, there was an attempt for a full-on take-over of the NCW of the Archdiocese of Agana, thanks to the patronage of Abp. Apuron, a professed follower of the NCW. He aligned his leadership to the neglect of the majority traditional Catholic Faithful and clergy who do not follow the Way. This attempt and the mistrust of him and his leadership is the over-arching cause of division in the local Church. This mistrust and neglect of the traditional Church formed the situation that is adverse to a harvest among the traditional Faithful for a more demanding, deeper and more engaged Catholic Faithful --- either in the formula prescribed by the Way or in general. Second, “the positive thing to say …” focusing on the operative word “positive” --- you can put a positive spin about anything even about hell, but the results, the reality on the ground will be the truth. As to Guam, the reality on the ground is that the NCW has not achieved its goal of a deeper, more engaged population of Catholics in the terms prescribed by the Way. While Catholics always have room for improvement in the knowledge of their faith, in the deepening of their relationship with God --- Guam’s Catholics have been the most devout, the most supportive of the Church, the most engaged at the parish and diocese levels, and have lived Catholicism as the general island lifestyle. Other faith-deepening movements have been introduced and exist in the local Church, the Cursillo movement being one of those, but none of those movements have morphed their aspirations for a total take-over of the archdiocese nor have their practitioners been secretive and exclusive (and even arrogant and elitist) as NCW followers are on Guam. While the NCW is the new Church reality as Fr. Deck calls it. Guam's experience of a morphed NCW is a new Church reality that is not acceptable to majority of the local Faithful.
Don't be deceived Rose. The NCW hasn't morphed on Guam-the light has been shone on it and the reality is becoming clear on Guam. The NCW leadership is untrustworthy and economic with the truth! Just look at the discrepency between the words and the actions. Chief catechist David says we will comply with AB Byrne's directive. The reality is that the NCS still recruits new members at end of convivance eucharists, dance around the altar, place loose flowers on the altar, fail to advertise or make their eucharists open to the general public. This behaviour is repeated throughout the world and is not unique to Guam.
DeleteComplacency and lack of interest by both the church hierarchy and parishioners will allow this interloper to infiltrate the parishes and take control. AB Byrnes has taken the initiative now the parishioners need to support him and fill the vacuum in the church which will otherwise be filled by the NCW. Kiko's ambition is boundless and worldwide.
Lord Frank Chapple used this technique for his communist sympathisers to take control of the Electrical Trades Union in the UK.
Wake up Guam catholics! Wake up catholics of the world.
Interloper - that is the exact description I had been thinking about to ascribe a synonymous word regarding NCW. Thank you, 4:13 PM. This smooth talking but lacking-in-substance group slithered itself in the night and we woke up to the reality of their venom and the unchecked hatching of their kind.
DeleteGreat article!
ReplyDeleteThis article clearly lays out what lead to the making of the perfect storm. Just sad what brother tony has brought this island to.
ReplyDeletethe article may sound balanced, but it leaves out the most important objection against "the way": erroneous, non-Catholic teaching that conflicts with the most central dogmas of the faith. this is an objection that has not yet been answered by the neocats.
ReplyDeleteWhile, true, the secular press is not equipped to address this. But then neither are most. The reason is that their real teachings are not publicly available. What we have (such as their teaching that "Jesus is a sinner") has had to be obtained secretly. Additionally, few Catholics these days know enough to discern between authentic doctrine and heretical teaching, especially since heresy always apes orthodoxy. Universally, we are in a very bad way, which is why the neo-cancer has spread so quickly.
Deletei do have to give kudos to the writers for the balanced and professional writing overall. i recall someone anonymous commenting here a couple of years ago here how jonathan and grace were "hardcore neos." i don't know how true that is (or was), but regardless, this article doesn't show a pro-neo slant.
ReplyDeleteWith all of their global media clout, why isn't EWTN supporting loyal Catholics who expose and document NCW heresies and liturgical abuses? That pseudo-Catholic Network is a near-total fraud! It's way past time to make Michael Warsaw and Doug Keck answer for their ongoing betrayals of the Faithful.
ReplyDeleteWho are the "loyal Catholics who expose and document NCW heresies and liturgical abuses?"
DeleteStart with everyone here. Catholics living on Guam are experiencing the NCW's ravages directly and making them known.
DeleteReally? WHO is making them known? A bunch of anonymous?
DeleteAnonymous is irrelevant. Everything they say about the NCW's offenses can be documented.
DeleteReally? Who are "they?" And documented by who?
DeleteStart with Bp. Byrnes.
DeleteOh, I see. So Byrne's is "they." Byrnes didn't document any heresies or abuses. He required them to follow their statute. I guess I have to spell this out. Except for a very few people, mostly myself and Chuck White, NO ONE has stood up to document anything. Lots of complaints, mostly anonymous, mostly hearsay, but very few willing to do the hard work of researching, documenting, and putting their name on it and publicly calling them out. As an example, let's see who from Santa Rita will come forward to formally and publicly complain about their missing presbyter.
Deletetim tells the truth. we should all be grateful for all the sacrifices and courage and tenacity that tim and chuck have given to uncover and share the truth. and hopefully more people will be inspired to do the same. parish by parish, village by village.
DeleteBy the way, we, who walk in NCW communities, do not receive the Body and Blood of Christ sitting down; we do not dance around the altar during the Eucharistic celebration; we do not give homilies, but just a short Attention to open our ears to listen to the Word of God. As for flowers on the altar, I am not aware of any canon restricting it.
DeleteWonderful. Then why not come to Mass with the rest of us.
DeleteFowler, you stand to receive the host, but sit to consume it. You dance around the altar as David danced around the Arc of the covenant after mass, but is the tabernacle empty when you dance? You do not give homilies, but you do some kind of sharing.
DeleteBTW, I attended mass one Satyrday evening in one of the Parishes and to my surprise, those walking the way didn't give the double kiss during the sign of peace. Guess they didn't want to be targeted as neo walkers. They were there in body only. Why do I say this, because they were not participating in the prayers or the signing. I also notice that NONE put money in the basket, why, because they were signaling each other not to do alms giving. You see, I was sitting right smack in the middle of the pew with them so I couldn't help but notice it . Yes, they were neo members because I know them.. For some, the regular mass means nothing.
Because I enjoy the intimacy of the celebration. I've come to truly listen to the Word and how it affects those in the community. In the "big" church I did not have the sense of the Lord being present in the Word. By the way, The Liturgy as celebrated by the NCW is considered one of the Sunday Masses in our parish and anyone who wants to is both encouraged and welcomed to come.
DeleteFowler @ 6:12 AM, please google the GIRM #30. Flowers on the altar are expressly forbidden on the mensa. You might even do your community a favor by actually purchasing a copy of the General Instructions on the Roman Missal for adherence or just basic education on what the Catholic Church requires.
Delete"Because I, I, I, I..." Yes, we get it. LOL
DeleteE Fowler is a good disciple of Kiko Arguello. He has even learned how to speak half truths to mislead people. But E Fowler forgot to mention, or clarify the following:
Delete"do not receive the Body and Blood of Christ sitting down" - BUT, they receive it too early, while standing, then sit and wait for the rest of the community to receive the body of Christ. And when the presbyter gives the signal, you all consume while seated. So you receive improperly (too early) and you consume while seated. If I am wrong here please correct me. But I know I am right, so there will be no correction from E Fowler.
"we do not dance around the altar during the Eucharistic celebration" - BUT, you do dance around the altar after the final blessing and before the presbyter processes out. And, technically, you never dance around the altar4, because you do not even have an altar present at your shindigs. It is merely a table covered with a cloth. Half truths are funny things!
"we do not give homilies, but just a short Attention to open our ears to listen to the Word of God" - BUT, most people think you are talking about the admonitions that take place before the readings. And you obviously are trying to get them to focus on this. However, each member can give a homily after the Gospel is read. Sometimes every member feels compelled to share. When all this is done then the presbyter pipes in. Well, you can call it whatever you like, E Fowler, but what you are doing is giving a homily. Look at the rubrics. After the Gospel the homily immediately follows. One person gives an admonition before hand, but the whole crowd can chime in afterward with their personal homily. If I am wrong, E Fowler, then correct me. But you know the whole truth, don't you!
By the way, E Fowler, ask your responsible why you receive the Body of Christ when you do. It is not permissible by the Church. Look at a real mass. Only con-celebrant priests receive before the prayer "Behold the Lamb of God ...". Everybody else receives after the priests. But apparently, Kiko believes all people are con-celebrants and worthy to receive as such.
Shame on you for following the path of half truths to resolve the real questions that arise about your form of worship. But this is what we have come to expect, even from respectable kikos.
Stop drinking the KAKA kool-ade!
What am I missing. 150000 +/- catholics on Guam, 800 walk in communities of the NCW. Who would think those who chose to walk in a Christ centered community could wrack such destruction on the church of Guam. I've walked in a community for over 14 years, I have had 17 years of conservative Catholic education. I've yet it hear any heresy.
ReplyDeleteHow would you know?
Deleteapuron OUT... NO MONEY... apuron OUT... NO MONEY... apuron OUT...
Deletefor the Unknown April 7, 2017 at 6:06 AM, in your 17 years of conservative Catholic education, have you ever learned, practiced or even read of the following (from the diana an ncw blog on guam)
D. AnthonyMarch 22, 2017 at 6:54 AM
my dear diana when you say the "Cardinal celebrated the Eucharist" with the brothers in the NCW communities at the Agana Cathedral, are you saying the celebration happened as you described in this comment on 09.08.2016.
Diana September 8, 2016 at 6:13 PM
In Holy Communion, we receive the Body of Christ standing up.
We do not consume His Body immediately.
We are to hold His Body in our hands close to our hearts with adoration.
After everyone has received the Body of Christ, the priest proceeds with "Behold, the Body of Christ......" And we respond with "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you......" All the words are the same as it is in the regular Mass.
But we consume the Body of Christ together with the priest.
And yes, we consume His Body sitting down.
DianaMarch 22, 2017 at 9:41 AM
Dear D. Anthony,
Yes, he did celebrate the Eucharist just as we usually do. That was last year. However, with this new directive coming from Archbishop Byrnes, we will now celebrate the way he instructed.
http://neocatechemunal.blogspot.com/2017/03/leaders-of-neocatechumenal-way-talk.html
so, unknown what do you think, does any of that sound familiar, did you learn, practice or read any of what the diana stated in your conservative Catholic education or is this a walk you'd walked in a community for over 14 years.
well, unknown the diana and the ncw has been in practice on guam for more than your conservative years, so what does this say about the ncw or your community walk.
apuron OUT... NO MONEY... apuron OUT... NO MONEY... apuron OUT...
Well, how would you know??
DeleteHis Excellency Bishop Schneider: This is a very complex and sad phenomenon. To speak openly: It is a Trojan horse in the Church. I know them very well because I was an episcopal delegate for them for several years in Kazakhstan in Karaganda. And I assisted their Masses and meetings and I read the writings of Kiko, their founder, so I know them well. When I speak openly without diplomacy, I have to state: The Neocathecumenate is a Protestant-Jewish[12]community inside the Church with a Catholic decoration only. The most dangerous aspect is regarding the Eucharist, because the Eucharist is the heart of the Church. When the heart is in a bad way, the whole body is in a bad way. For the Neocatechumenate, the Eucharist is primarily a fraternal banquet. This is a Protestant, a typically Lutheran attitude.[13]They reject the idea and the teaching of the Eucharist as a true sacrifice. They even hold that the traditional teaching of, and belief in, the Eucharist as a sacrifice is not Christian but pagan.[14]This is completely absurd, this is typically Lutheran, Protestant. During their liturgies of the Eucharist they treat the Most Holy Sacrament in such a banal manner, that it sometimes becomes horrible.[15]They sit while receiving Holy Communion, and then they lose the fragments because they do not take care of them, and after Communion they dance instead of praying and adoring Jesus in silence. This is really worldly and pagan, naturalistic.
Deletehttp://www.junglewatch.info/2016/04/bishop-schneider-doctrine-of-kiko.html
His Excellency Bishop Schneider: The second danger is their ideology. The main idea of the Neocathecumenate according their founder Kiko ArgĂĽello is the following: the Church had an ideal life only until Constantine in the 4th century, only this was effectively the real Church. And with Constantine the Church started to degenerate: doctrinal degeneration, liturgical and moral degeneration.[16]And the Church reached the rock bottom of this degeneration of doctrine and liturgy with the decrees of the Council of Trent. However, contrary to his opinion, the opposite is true: this was one of the highlights of the history of the Church because of the clarity of doctrine and discipline. According to Kiko, the dark age of the Church lasted from the 4th century until the Second Vatican Council. It was only with Vatican Council II that light came into the Church. This is heresy because this is to say that the Holy Spirit abandoned the Church. And this is really sectarian and very much in line with Martin Luther, who said that until him the Church had been in darkness and it was only through him that there was light in the Church. The position of Kiko is fundamentally the same only that Kiko postulates the dark time of the Church from Constantine to Vatican II. So they misinterpret the Second Vatican Council. They say that they are apostles of Vatican II. Thus they justify all their heretical practices and teachings with Vatican II. This is a grave abuse.
DeleteHis Excellency Bishop Schneider: This is another tragedy. They established a powerful lobby in the Vatican at least thirty years ago. And there is another deception: at many events they present very many fruits of conversion and many vocations to the bishops. A lot of bishops are blinded by the fruits, and they don’t see the errors, and don’t examine them. They have large families, they have a lot of children, and they have a high moral standard in family life. This is, of course, a good result. However, there is also a kind of exaggerated behaviour to press the families to get a maximum number of children. This is not healthy. And they say, we are accepting Humanae Vitae,[17]and this is, of course, good. But in the end this is an illusion, because there are also quite a lot of Protestant groups today in the world with a high moral standard, who also have a great number of children, and who also go and protest against the gender ideology, homosexuality, and who also accept Humanae Vitae. But, for me, this is not a decisive criterion of truth! There are also a lot of Protestant communities who convert a lot of sinners, people who lived with addictions such as alcoholism and drugs. So the fruit of conversions is not a decisive criterion for me and I will not invite this good Protestant group which converts sinners and has a lot of children to my diocese to engage in apostolate. This is the illusion of many bishops, who are blinded by the so-called fruits.
DeleteThat is one heck of an article by our own Grace Garces Bordallo.
ReplyDeleteWhat is interesting is that Byrnes ordered the NCW to halt the formation of any new communities. He did this without exception.
BUT - the NCW last weekend had their big bash at a hotel to form new communities. While it is true that the members of these new and illicit communities started their catechesis with the "Invitation to Joy" back in January and February, they were not in a community. At the cultic ritual, which they call a convivence, these students of the word are asked and encouraged to join and form a new community.
I wonder if when they were electing their responsible for that community, if anyone asked if their action was a violation of the Archbishop's orders? Or was the catechesis such a total brainwash that they already believe they are above all except Kiko and the head catechist, David Atienza?
I hope Archbishop Byrnes is aware that new communities have been formed under his watch, and after his decision to ban such an action. I also hope he can advise the Catholic faithful if this exception was granted, or if the NCW is in violation of his new letter. Lastly, Archbishop Byrnes might want to let us know if the NCW was granted permission to celebrate a mass/Eucharist at a hotle, as required by his latest letter. Or did the NCW snub his authority there as well?
No surprise that the Neocats ignored Bp. Byrnes' toothless orders. They know they're only symbolic.
DeleteInstead of immediately coming down on them like a ton of bricks, Byrnes let them get away with their illicit recruitment. He should excommunicate the whole damn bunch of them!
How is Byrnes supposed to act on their "illicit recruitment" when all there is is anonymous comments to this blog? This whole damn affair has drug on for so long because all we get is anonymous comments to this blog. Whoever saw the neocats recruiting MUST write up a report and personally go see Byrnes.
DeleteSadly this blog sounds much like Scribes & Pharisees. May the all Powerful God bless you, protect you from all evil and bring you to Eternal Life. Peace be with you. Good Bye.
ReplyDeleteLOL. We're so used to your kind you don't even know you're a cliche. Show these pathetic Kiko's the truth and they turn into the holier than thou bullshit. Thanks for the laugh. Bye.
DeleteE Fowler- peace be with you and adios. Come back whenever you're ready to practice real Catholicism.
DeleteWe pray for you too!
Predictable kiko-speak, Fowler. Can't handle the truth, so just offer a magic incantation in the hopes of coming out of the forest temple of scribes and pharisees. You funny, Fowler, so funny.
DeleteAw, Fowler, can't handle the heat, eh? Come on, we need fodder for laughter. We biught the popcorn and soda. Please come back and be foul-er, okay?
Delete