Wednesday, May 28, 2014

THE NEOCATECHUMENAL DISTRIBUTION OF THE CONSECRATED HOST



This is at a wedding where apparently non-Neo members were present. Thus instructions are first given on how to receive. The congregation is clearly instructed to receive in the hand and then sit. Later you see the ministers of Holy Communion directing the communicants to sit after they receive the consecrated host in their hands. We then see the bride and groom laughing and talking while they hold the consecrated host. The priest has not received before distributing the sacred species as he is required to do and as evidenced by his sitting down holding the host and then consuming after the consecrated host has been distributed to the communicants. 


This is the practice that the Neocatechumenal Way was forbidden to do in 2005 and "re-forbidden" to do in Article 13, footnote 49 of the 2008 approved Statute. This is the practice that the Archbishop and his presbyters participate in. This is the practice that the "Filipino priests" were ordered to do or get out of the diocese in 2008. This is the practice that the Archbishop and the leaders of the Neocatechumenal Way believe is the right way to receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ...but now we have to wonder if they even believe the consecrated host REALLY IS the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...or is he just "mysteriously present" as we have been told.

The wedding occurred May 28, 2011, three years after the Neocatechumenal Way was given its final Statute,  at St. Francis of Assisi Parish Pulo Cabuyao, Laguna. Here is the link to the original video as posted on YouTube. 

50 comments:

  1. And THIS is what the Archbishop wants for the Catholic Church in Guam (per the "lost" KOLG episode)?!?
    My response: NO!!

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    1. Mary Lou then might as well be a protestant...

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    2. Anonymous (May 29, 21014 at 2:10 PM), I'm not sure how to interpret your comment "Mary Lou then might as well be a protestant..." Please clarify:

      • Are you telling me that by refusing to accept the irreverent method of the NCW "receiving and consuming” Kiko's bread that I might as well be a Protestant? Do you share the mindset of “Diana” that anyone who rejects what the NCW does and/or teaches is “anti-Catholic”? OR

      • Are you stating that such “reception and consumption” of Kiko’s bread is more Protestant than Catholic in nature?

      I certainly hope it is the latter and not the former; I further hope you take the time to clarify. Thank you.

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    3. I submit the following link to a very useful discussion on this subject - something of antidote to the distortions of the Way, and their claims about the "early Church":

      http://media.musicasacra.com/pdf/schneider.pdf

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  2. There you have it folks! The evidence of irreverence to Our Lord. And the Archbishop expects us to accept that? I agree with Mary Lou - "NO!"

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    1. That's a double NO for me too!

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    2. Of course Kiko doesn't teach that "it" is Our Lord". So no need for reverence. It's just a happy meal...as you can see.

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    3. Janet B - MangilaoMay 29, 2014 at 9:27 AM

      Not just NO, but Hell (keep away) NO!
      We want our Catholic Church restored, and our Archbishop refuses to do it.
      Rome help us!

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    4. Rome help us!

      dear Janet, I'm from Rome... I love Rome , I studied at the Pontificia Universitas Lateranensis... the situation here is not good at all. priests here seem to be more strange than evreywhere. and Our Lord seems to be forgotten, and removed from the center... let's pray for each others! Roma needs your prays...

      rocco

      ps: I hope Idid not make too much mistakes... I don't speack english ... sorry.

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    5. Rocco, you did fine. Your English, I understood and I am sure Janet also understood it.

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  3. You guys don't have to do this if you don't want. But you can't prevent us from doing this either. So why bother? Just leave us alone, okay?
    The video shows it is an all UNIVERSAL practice now all around the world. It has nothing to do with local bishops. Your arguments are moot and dull when you try to undermine the Archbishop of Guam by pointing fingers on a universal practice inside the Church. Actually, the Way does this everywhere. So what is your hoopla and obsession with the Archbishop?
    You can say no for yourselves as much as you wish. But you cannot say no for us, because we refuse your no. We say yes. Yes, we are part of the Church, you like it or not.

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    1. Universal practice? I don't practice this! This is not part of my liturgy. So go obey your statues and your KIKO!

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    2. We can't leave you alone. You come into our churches, interrupt our Masses, take over our church buildings, take our money, break parishes, steal parishioners, break families, run over our clergy, lie to us about pastoral centers when they are really neocatechumenaries...shall I go on? WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE US ALONE? Go build your own churches. You already are your own church.

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    3. Hmmm. I see you are from Italy.

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    4. Janet B - MangilaoMay 29, 2014 at 9:59 PM

      AnonymousMay 28, 2014 at 6:05 PM - funny how you say: "The video shows it is an all UNIVERSAL practice now all around the world."
      And that is supposed to make it right?
      Murder is a universal problem, every day, all around the world...does that make it acceptable, right, and proper?
      Get real or get lost, preferably the latter.
      No worries Deacon Harold...I know this is not you...the english is too refined, yours is still very crude!
      Pax

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    5. Actually, you are not. By not following the norms of the ROMAN CATHOLIC MISSAL you are declaring yourself another church. What everyone fails to understand is that their is only one RCM and the kiko's want to make their own liturgy, apart from what are accepted and approved liturgical practices.Other liturgies accepted by the Roman Catholic Church, such as the byzantine liturgy existed at the time the roman Liturgy was ratified. All others were thrown out and forbidden. So if you really insist, go ahead make your own liturgy, just don't call it Roman Catholic.

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  4. Guess who made this remark: "What sort of a banquet does one go to which requires you to stand rather than sit?" [Xxxxxx Xxxxxx] asked.

    He said that, in the Gospels, St. Mark said "Christ served the apostles -- he did not ask or invite them to come up" in order to receive his body and blood."

    Sounds like some sola scriptura believer interpreting the Bible outside of any Church Authority. But as much as it points that way, this is not the case. Anyone care to guess who interpreted this passage sans context?

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    1. The Archbishop is rather famous:

      Archbishop Anthony Apuron of Agana, Guam, said the entire church should consider adopting some of the Way's liturgical practices, including restoring "the 'breadness' of the bread," by using the "unleavened bread used in the ancient and primitive church rather than the wafer-thin, mass-produced bread we use as hosts for our people today."

      And, he said, when a priest carries the Eucharist to people who are seated, it fosters more of a sense of community.

      "What sort of a banquet does one go to which requires you to stand rather than sit?" Archbishop Apuron asked.

      Conversely, the Apostle Paul has said in 1 Cor 11:

      
      20 When you meet together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat. 21 For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal, and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.
      23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
      27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. 31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are chastened so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
      33 So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— 34 if any one is hungry, let him eat at home—lest you come together to be condemned. About the other things I will give directions when I come.

      So, assuming Archbishop Apuron has not been quoted out of context, it seems he is making a statement that is problematic. It is not a banquet in the literal sense. it is coming together to receive the Lord

      http://www.catholicforum.com/forums/showthread.php?23453-The-Neocatechumenal-Way

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  5. Guess the NCW are equating the Banquet to a fiesta! There is no comparison whatsoever!

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  6. If it is so easy for to find this on youtube, why hasnt the Pope done anything? Especially if it is wrong!?

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    Replies
    1. Janet B - MangilaoMay 29, 2014 at 9:37 AM

      How many times does this have to be said? The Archbishop is the one given the responsibility to insure norms and practices conform to Universal liturgy. Why don't you ask him why he doesn't enforce this part of GIRM?

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  7. Why is it so difficult for the NCW to conform to its own statutes? I think that because to do so would undermine their underpinnings. If the NCW truly wants communion with the Church, it should seek to conform and unite.

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    1. Why is it so difficult for everyone accept that we have? Im sure something would have been said if we didnt.

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    2. More evidence of how self-centered the Neo is. The weeds grow with the wheat.

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    3. Why hasn't the pope done anything? LOL

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    4. Answer that question Tim. Really, Why hasn't the pope done anything?

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    5. First, you don't know that he hasn't. The Vatican worked long and hard behind the scenes with Luther before Luther made his break public and Rome condemned him. Second, your puerile demand evinces the very worst of what we already know about you: "we're getting away with it so it must be okay." That's actually a very grievous sin: the sin of presumption. It's one of the worst because it mocks God directly. Third, the pope recently reminded Kiko to conform to his "charter". Like a good father, he is giving his son time to mend his ways and pastorally correcting him. For Kiko and you to presume - as we have become used to - that the pope's pastoral care is actually license to continue status quo is a deeply grave offense to the pope, to the Church, and to the innocent among you. "The floor of hell..."

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    6. Everything is slow to you but when you want answers you expect them in the snap of a finger.

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    7. I've been asking since 2008. Would you like to see the record?

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    8. This viedo prove that the way the ncw celebrates is universal because this video is not from Guam. It looks like its from the Phillippines. So, it wasn't the archbishop who gave any consent on how the ncw's liturgy should be celebrated. It was the pope. Diana was right. She said that she heard Father Pius say they got it form Kiko and Kiko got it from the pope. The ncw around the world got the same info cuz the way they receive communion is the same. So, the archbishop was following what they say came from the pope.

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    9. No comment needed. But thanks for the chuckle.

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    10. And since you dont receive your the info you want, you change it into it being a secret.

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    11. Janet B - MangilaoMay 29, 2014 at 9:43 AM

      Anon May 29 @ 9:09AM says"...Diana was right. She said that she heard Father Pius say they got it form Kiko and Kiko got it from the pope. The ncw around the world got the same info cuz the way they receive communion is the same. So, the archbishop was following what they say came from the pope."
      Attn Rome: Now they say, he said you said. Good Catholics know that all practices are carefully studied and then clearly documented when promulgated. But the NeoCatechumenal Way says that the Pope told Kiko, who then told all his minions. Real Catholics know this is not the way it works, but you now have a radical group using you as their scape goat.
      Now would be a good time to step in and set the record straight. The whole world is being misled by this group. What will they try next?

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    12. 9:09 a.m. This mannerism of receiving/consuming did not come from the Pope. It came from KIKO"S STATUTES! If it was a directive from the Pope we will all be doing this...what and idiot you are! Read your statutes, study it hard, memorize and aWAY with you!

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    13. Yeah right! The written word came first, so everyone was following a book. Don't you know that oral tradition came first until it was written down. When the Pope tells someone something, he's supposed to obey, not wait until it's written down.

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    14. 10:32 a.m then it should be publicly announced so we can all follow. I don't budge when told to do something...it better be on paper just in case....

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  8. Diana is always right...let's put this scenario in order....the Pope gave the directive/mannerism of receiving/consuming communion to Kiko. Kiko then gives the directives to Father Pius who the. Informs the catechisist. As you can see the Archbishop is left out of the picture once again. When the Archbishop is left out in all this, then to me he is not the shepherd, but one of the sheep in the flock of the NCW. Who is the. The shepherd....Kiko or Father Pius?

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    1. Janet B - MangilaoMay 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM

      not shepherds...WOLVES!

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  9. Mr Rohr you are quite delusional if you expect the Pope to alter the practices of the NCW. There are no such signs anywhere. You may still trust it forever but it won't happen. In every country of the world you see the same NCW flourishing. How do you think to stop it? I mean practically what kind of mechanism could change NCW around the world? You know the saying, while the dogs are barking the caravan is progressing.

    It could be more fruitful to join the NCW, become a catechist and then correct it from inside what you think is flawed. Kiko would be grateful for your service.

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    1. Do I have to forget how to spell before I join?

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    2. Can you honestly say that the NCW is "flourishing" here? Guam is unique because the NCW faces no practical constraints or restraints here. Once the NCW starts acting elsewhere as they have here, you will see worldwide opposition. Not only that, but its morass of half-truths will then be obvious too.

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    3. It is truly hard to take seriously your claim, Anonymous (May 29, 2014 at 11:19 AM), that the NCW is "flourishing" here on Guam. Have you not heard about how the communities at St. Anthony-St. Victor Church have shrunk and have been combined with other communities? How do you call that "flourishing"?

      Have you not heard of how in other parts of the world the NCW activities have been put on "hold" or terminated because the bishops — unlike Archbishop Apuron who jumped right in and decided to "walk"! — could see the division and the damage being done in their dioceses?

      Thanks to JungleWatch, Guam is truly a case study for the world to observe, as if under a microscope, and from which they can take notes about what happens when they fail to recognize the dangers brought by the NCW. I was one of those "slow learners" who insisted on giving the NCW the benefit of the doubt while others were complaining; thank goodness, I finally "woke up and smelled the stench." So now the rest of the world can see what a threat the NCW can pose to the unity of their diocese; no other Bishop/Archbishop will follow in the footsteps of Archbishop Anthony Sablan Apuron — he alone was foolish enough to relinquish his spiritual leadership and become the Greatest NCW Pawn in Kiko's back pocket!

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    4. Besides Tamuning, Agana neo communities are always consolidating downward because of the loss of members. And if you note carefully, most of the members of the newest communities are the children of the couples of the older communities. They are not flourishing. They failed miserably in Merizo and Inarajan, and Santa Rita and Agat are barely surviving. If it wasn't for our neo archbishop, the neo would die in Guam along with the seminary. That is their greatest fear and that is they is why they are trying to grab assets and entrench their power and influence as much as possible because after apuron retires, there will be a new sheriff in town!

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    5. Janet B - MangilaoMay 29, 2014 at 10:28 PM

      Mary Lou is absolutely correct. The kiko cuckoos are in decline. Maybe we should dance around their table Saturday night! Or would that taint us?

      Rather than continuing to grow, they are losing members faster than they can replace them. Maybe our dear, sweet, and mute Archbishop should put in a call for more evangelists from Europe to come save us and evangelize us.

      Communities are constantly being combined because their numbers get so small in one they have to combine with another. And a couple times each year they put on a full court press to try and get more lambs to pass thru the wolves gates. This bolsters the numbers but they too start to drop out and get combined with other communities.

      Yigo communities are in crisis mode. Dededo, oops, sorry - none! Tamuning is in consolidation mode as well. The south has risen from the smoke of battle and is rallying back to the real Church, refusing to sing kiko/dixie. Asan-shrinking. Maina - oops, never got off the ground no matter how hard Adrian tried. Agana - not really a community, they belong to the parish of Cuesta San Ramon. They won't leave because the Archbishop takes good care of them. Chalan Pago - who knows? Barrigada - strong, but at a heavy price to all the non-kikos.

      They are getting more and more priests, but fewer and fewer "adherents". I guess that means those priests will either turn up the pressure or the Archbishop will assign them to prey on other pagan victims.

      Either way we will not quit, we will not surrender our Church to the kikoarchy.

      Face it kikos. Your days are numbered. For the good Neos out there, I do feel for you, especially if the neo brought you back/closer into the Church. You are a casualty of this confrontation between the Catholic Church and the Axis of Evil. But despair not. When the kikoarchy is finally driven from our shores, you will always be welcome in our Churches. And if a movement is what helps you then seek one out. The Basic Ecclesial Community is very similar to the Neo, but without the heretical teaching and private masses. The Cursillo is also very similar as well, with small groups gathering to share faith on a weekly basis.

      If you really want to Neo to stay, then start demanding of the kikoarchy answers to your questions and our questions. If they refuse to answer even you, their membership, then run away as fast as you can. God bless you good neos!

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    6. May 29, 11:19AM "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched" -- you may find out that in your cockiness, you end up being the delusional one here!

      You all are so smug and comfortable with the fact that there are "no signs anywhere" (of imminent perils approaching) -- don't be so sure!

      You all are feeling cozy over the CURRENT "silence" from the Vatican and interpret that silence to be approval for Kiko's heresies. Don't get too comfy -- up-coming events might just jolt you out of your seats!

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  10. Tony de New YorkMay 30, 2014 at 8:19 AM

    I am angry that those ABUSES are been tolerated by the bishop.

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  11. Anon 9.46pm. You are correct in your evaluation. The threat is not the people joining because the numbers are few. No one with sense would join the NCW. The threat is this seminary, the greater number ordained means greater problems for the next archbishop of Guam. Archbishop Apuron created the problem. It will take ten years after him to clean up Guam. So if his reign of disunity ends in seven years, 2021 it will be 2031 when it's all cleaned up. Given the previous 20 years, so nearly forty years this local church would have suffered because of archbishop Apuron. But it will be cleaned up. Some of us will be dead by the end but we did our share of removing this NCW from Guam for a better future for the people. May be the holy father will appoint the two on the hill as bishops, then you just have to suffer it a life time.

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  12. Oh my. Where is the fruit of reverence the cukoos so often talk about?
    Seems to me if they want a banquet they should wait until after mass for the reception. They should focus on the sacrifice of the mass while in the Church. But of course the Guam bishop has already said he disagrees with this teaching of the Church.
    Doesn't that mean he has effectively excommunicated himself?

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  13. I enjoyed reading this, especially comparing the comments of the Kikonuts and the rebuttal by Guam Catholics. The claim by the Kikonut that the NCW is flourishing made me laugh as it made me recall a recent conversation that revealed one of the Neo "communities" has only 3 lost souls. LOL!

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