Tuesday, February 2, 2016

THE DEEP EVIL OF KIKO ARGUELLO

Apuron has often said that he is not forcing the Neocatechumenal Way on anybody (despite his threats to priests to serve the Way or get out). He doesn't have to force. He only has to follow Kiko's playbook.

It's masterful really. Like Khrushchev's "We will bury you...without firing a shot," Kiko Arguello has fashioned a plan to infiltrate the Church and do the same: "bury us...without a shot." And it is happening all so quietly right under your noses, doing it the same way the communists have been doing it for 50 years. 

While our concerns are diverted by the outrages of the seminary swindle, the injustices towards Fr. Paul and Msgr. James, and the strange neo practices, the kikos are quietly infiltrating the educational and formational channels of the Catholic Church: the CCD programs, the Catholic schools, the Confirmation classes, RCIA, marriage preparation, etc. 


None of this is happening under the name "neocatechumenal way." It's all very quiet. These are seemingly normal people just wanting to help their church. But all of it has one end: drain the Catholic faith from within and funnel everyone into their "church," the church of Kiko Arguello: the "community." 

Here is an account from someone who, wanting to get married, attended the marriage prep course as required in his parish, and came face to face with the deep evil of Kiko Arguello.

The account is in Spanish with a rough google translation highlighted in yellow. And as you will see in the end, he too is hoping Rome will do something.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Meanwhile, refuse to participate in anything that smells of Kiko Arguello. 

*****

​29 de enero de 2016, 11:22
Vivo (name of city) pero trabajo fuera, y me apunté a mi parroquia para casarme porque es donde me bautizé y parte de mi familia pertenece a la cofradia. Todo normal hasta que comienzan los cursillos prematrimoniales.

January 29, 2016, 11:22 am
I live in (name of city) but I work out of there, and I signed up in my parish to marry (NOTE: to have the sacrament of marry) because that's where I was baptized and a part of my family belongs to the brotherhood. Everything was normal until premarital courses began. 

Nos convocan y nos hablan de 8 o 9 catequesis (no sabíamos que eran tan largos) y a partir de ahí todo normal. Me choca que se celebre en lo que llaman "El Catecumenium" y no en la propia iglesia, pero pensé que era cuestión de logística.

They called us and talk about 8 or 9 catechesis (we did not know they were so long) and until then, everything normal. It strikes me that meetings are held in what is called "The Catechumenium" and not in the temple of the church itself, but I thought maybe it was a matter of logistics.

Las primeras reuniones fueron extrañas. El primer día en concreto ví a los catequistas y en vez de esas personas amables y risueñas que esperas encontrar ví a unas parejas con la mueca torcida, muy serios, que decían ser felices en sus matrimonios con una expresión que indicaba todo lo contrario. Gente muy joven algunos y con muchos niños. Empezaron a preguntarnos en qué trabajabamos mientras decían apuntar nuestros datos en una agenda.

The first meetings were strange. The first day in particular I met our catechists and instead of being those kind of friendly and smiling people who I expected to find, I saw some couples with their twisted, serious face, who claimed to be happily married with an expression that indicated just the opposite. Some of them too young people with many children. They began to ask us what was each one's job while pointing our data in a agenda.

El primer día estuve apunto de llorar. LLega un tipo que es de profesión comercial y el y su mujer comienzan a hablarnos de su vida conyugal. Nos hablaban del matrimonio como si fuera una tortura; un camino plagado de sufrimiento, donde nos sentiríamos sólos, perdidos, confusos. ¡Se supone que estábamos ahí para casarnos! ¿A qué viene todo esto?

The first day I was about to mourn. There comes a guy who is a commercial professional and he and his wife began to talk about their married life. They talked of marriage like a torture; a way plagued of suffering, where we will feel alone, we'll be lost, confused. Supposedly we were there to get married! What's this all about?

El resto de las reuniones el tipo se dedicaba a repetir la misma retahíla aprendida de memoria. Sus narraciones con tecnicismos bíblicos siempre hablaban de lo mismo: "Dios te ama. Dios perdona." Pero citaba con asiduidad: "tu estás sólo y sin Jesucristo tu matrimonio no va a funcionar" para acabar con "sin la comunidad tu matrimonio no va a funcionar". Al principio pensé que hablaba de la comunidad cristiana.

The other  meetings  that guy devoted to repeat the same litany learned by heart. His stories with biblical technicalities always talked about the same thing: "God loves you, God forgives.." But regularly he quoted: "You are alone and without Jesus Christ your marriage will not work" to end "without the community your marriage will not work." At first I thought that spoke of the Christian community.

Salía de los cursos cansada, desmoralizada y abatida, me robaban la ilusión.
I got out of courses tired, demoralized and dejected, they stole my illusion.

Por otra parte comentaba con los compañeros del curso lo absurdo e inútil de las charlas, hablándonos a adultos con historias de adán y eva como si fuesemos niños de ocho años que van a hacer la comunión... Insistían mucho en que el resto del mundo nos enseñaba a vivir de tal manera que acabaríamos siendo desgraciados. Yo, que me he criado en una moral cristiana y católica de generaciones, nunca había oido hablar a nadie así del resto de la sociedad no creyente.

Moreover I commented with other participants about how absurdity and futility were the talks, speaking to adults with stories of Adam and Eve as if we were children of eight years old who are going to have first communion ... They insisted very much in that the rest of the world will took us to live in such way that we would end up being miserable. I have grown up in a Christian and Catholic moral from some generations ago and I had never heard anyone talking in that way about the rest of the unbelieving society.

También nos invitaban a merendar, traían dulces caros y café, cerveza, etc. Sacaban de vez en cuando una cruz con aires románicos y nos hablaba de Jesús y la Comunidad, Jesús y la Comunidad....

They also invited  us to tea, they brought expensive sweets and coffee, beer, etc. Occasionally they drew a cross with Romanesque style and we talked about Jesus and the Community, the Community and Jesus ....

Mis compañeros me comentaron que eran kikos. Yo sólo pensé que eso les influía en su visión sobre la sexualidad y poco más, por lo que no me alarmó​.

Others told me they were kikos. I just thought that maybe it would influence his views on sexuality and little else, so it did not alarm me.

(CONTINÚA)
Anónimo29 de enero de 2016, 11:31

Empezaron a citarnos en sus casas. Sábados, domingos... viernes a las 9,30 de la noche en invierno. Mis familiares y amigos no podían creerlo. Empecé a ver algo raro en eso. ¿Es necesario tantas citas, y a esas horas tan impropias de una catequesis? Pero fuera de haber un clima informal y distendido se dedicaban a la misma oratoria y las mismas retahilas, mientras nos ponían más comida y dulces y vino. ¿De qué iba todo esto?- Es un negocio. No hay que ver más que como repite siempre lo mismo de la semana anterior. Nos quiere vender un producto y nosotros somos futuros clientes.- Yo no lo entendía. -El producto es la Comunidad.

(CONTINUES)
Anonymous January 29, 2016, 11:31 am

They began to convene us in their homes. Saturday, Sunday ... Friday at 9.30 pm in winter. My family and friends could not believe it. I began to see something strange about that. Were necessary so many appointments, and such improper hours for so many catechesis? But far from an informal and relaxed atmosphere they were always engaged in the same speech and the same jingles while they gave us more food and sweets and wine. What was that all about? - It's a business. It is not necessary to see more than they always repeat the same thing as the previous week one time and another. They want to sell us a product and we are just their future clients.- I did not understand. -Product is the Community.

Ahora leo tu blog y veo todo claro. La manipulación, el adoctrimamiento, el aborregamiento, el decir que no somos verdaderos cristianos, el catastrofismo, la humillación, el mostrarnos al mundo como enemigo, enfatizar que estamos sólos y necesitamos ayuda...

Now I ​just ​read your blog ​​and see everything clear. Handling, adoctrimamiento, the mackerel, saying that we are not true Christians, catastrophism, humiliation, showing the world as an enemy, emphasize that we are alone and ​we ​need help ...

Me siento humillada, engañada y estafada por la que un día fue mi parroquia y mi sacerdote. Han aprovechado nuestra fé y el acto sacramental del matrimonio para abducirnos, intentar alejarnos del resto del mundo y controlarnos (ponedle un nombre a esto) Todo esto sin ir de frente ni identificarse como neocatecúmenos, con toda la intención de confundirnos. Como ha dejado nuestro sacerdote que los mercaderes se adueñen en el templo y comercien con la fé. Qué verguenza. Ojalá algún día se ​d​​e​ cuenta la Iglesia que estas prácticas arruinan la fé cristiana y te lanzan al laicismo. Ojalá el Papa Francisco se dé cuenta y los expulse como hizo Cristo en el templo. Y ellos que sigan adorando a su bellocino de oro particular..​.

I feel humiliated, deceived and cheated by one day it was my parish and my priest. They have taken advantage of our faith and the sacramental act of marriage to abduct, trying to get us away from the world and control us (put a name to this). All this without going in front or identified as neocatechumenals, with every intention to mislead. As our priest has left the merchants in the temple take ownership and trading with the faith. What a shame. I Hope someday the Church will notice that these practices ruin the Christian faith and throw you into secularism. I wish Pope Francisco will realize and expell them as Christ did in the temple. And they'll continue worshiping their particular bellocino gold ..

Voy a denunciar esto dónde haga falta para que nadie pase el mismo calvario que esto pasando yo en la que un día fue mi Iglesia y la de mi familia.
I will denounce this where ​necessary to avoid others to go​ through this ordeal, ​where in ​the past ​it​ was my church and my family.

45 comments:

  1. Sounds like the process at San Vicente in Barrigada. You go In to make arrangements for your child's baptism, you answer questions and then out of the blue a kiko couple comes waltzing in. They say to you " May we come visit you or you can come visit us!" For fear of not having the child baptized, the parent(s) say yes! Pure communism tactic!

    ReplyDelete
  2. "Nos quiere vender un producto y nosotros somos futuros clientes ... El producto es la Comunidad."

    not just to be future clients, but after that, to be future salespeople as well. it really is a pyramid scheme--and guess who's at the top of the pyramid?

    it's telling that these accounts always show how, for the kikos, it's all about "the community." never so much about Jesus Christ and His Church, nor about grace and conversion and living in the love of Christ nourished by the sacraments.

    coincidentally, i was just reading today's Gospel reading (coincidentally in spanish too), about the exorcism of the gerasene demoniac. i always found it disturbing, comforted only by the fact that Jesus has the power to expel them:

    "Unclean spirit, come out of the man! ... What is your name?"

    He replied, "Legion is my name. There are many of us."

    ReplyDelete
  3. Rey D, you are completely right: "for the kikos, it's all about "the community." never so much about Jesus Christ and His Church".
    But many, many bishops do not see it. And at the end they are the last responsible of Kiko's evil through the Way. They have the duty "in vigilando" y no vigilan.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hey What has happend to The couple that was in Neo? Have they left The way? Is it all about money and Fake faith but behind The scenes happening much business? God bless you all

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hey wanted to ask has The couple leave Neo? And is it that everything seems like good but happen things behind The seen that it is about money and business? And Fake faith and just to get members? .. Need to know The truth..God bless you all.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Liam mullan (New York)October 8, 2016 at 1:55 PM

    The way is a beautiful instituion and charism approved not only by the churches many cardinals and bishops, but also by the last 3 pontiffs of the Catholic church. As a member of this community I can first hand day it is by no means the cult many believe it to be. It's brings a renewal of baptism into a dying Catholic church and announces the kerygma with great ambition and courage as announced in the gospel which the churches find more difficulty in doing. It is possible the catechists of your marriage course where in a period of crisis themselves as, remember, they are you humans simply trying to announce the love christ and his neccessity in a VERY BEAUTIFUL BUT DIFFICULT sacrament

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I say the Way is a piece of shit. So what makes me wrong and you right?

      Delete
    2. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me, not Kiko. The Catholic Church is not dying. You of little faith. You've been lied to by the deceiver of all deceivers. He is actually out to kill the Church by replacing the Altar with a table inside a hotel room.

      Delete
    3. Liam, the Catholic church is dying because people like you who turn to a movement led by an unordained layman who's able to influence and hoodwink weak church leaders. The Catholic church was founded by Jesus Christ for ALL who follow Him. You are a heretic since you follow Kiko instead of the Pope who is the successor of Peter who was entrusted by Christ. Stop claiming that the Catholic church is better because of the Way. You and your ilk best leave the Catholic church and open up a Kiko/Carmen church.

      Delete
    4. Well thats where you are wrong. The pope and many popes before him have always had a love for the Way. Pope John Paul ll, loved Carmen (also a founder of the way). She recently passed. The Way is a community inside the catholic church. There are many other "communities" inside the church. So why attack the Way and not some others? I have met Kiko and he is a very holy and humble man. He is in a deep crisis with the passing of Carmen. Do you know how the Way started?? I don't think you do. I, on the other hand, do. Kiko, along with Carmen, have had many visions of the Blessed Virgin Mary and many other blessed people. The Way actually recieved approval of the Holy Father in 2008. So clearly none of you know very well of the Way. Yes, the Way may not be for everyone. A friend of mine joined not too long ago, and soon figured out that it wasn't for her, and that is completely ok. Do you know of World Youth Day? It happened during July. I was there. The Holy Father blessed Kiko and sent his condolences for the passing of Carmen. You see, the Way isn't a faith-killing community. And Kiko had definetly not decieved us. All his songs and catechisms come from the bible. The Way is very beautiful! So please do not attack someone or something, just because you do not understand it.

      Delete
    5. 1:37 PM, I have studied the NCW and concluded it is a legitimate charism tolerated by the Pontiffs but not endorsed. I say legitimate because the nutjobs who adhere to it have legitimate claims to being in that state of foolishness, just like being in suspended reality. My study also reveals that NCW usurps the heart of Catholicism in order to advance its landgrab and mind control. The ordinary person or families are seen as means to an end, and pity the vulnerable and weak-minded who give in to its pretensions and ill intents. I do understand NCW, and it is this: fakery.

      Delete
    6. The Way doesn't in the slightest have to be approved in any diocese. There are two parallel WYDs (including where the Way is not approved) and parishioners don't know which one they are donating money to. In practice it is extremely often, almost anywhere, not all right to say the Way is not for oneself, before one joins, after one week, one year, ten years or twenty years. A person like you saying it is all right doesn't mean it is all right when it isn't all right. I've seen it unfold before my own eyes. All the reports ring true. The Holy Father is a very polite man. I bet you pass condolences to various people yourself. God will work through something bad till something better can replace it (including maybe dropping out). The Way is not organised for wellness. It kills some people's faith quickly, some people's slowly, without their realising. Some of those who stick the course have additional sources of faith. Even some itinerants have idealism, but not Holy Spirit discernment or power.

      Delete
    7. Glad to be back in Holy Mother ChurchOctober 27, 2016 at 9:55 AM

      Liam - the Catholic Church IS NOT DYING! I know you are told that in your catechism, because I was in the Way, and was told the same. But a wise priest once reminded me after listening to me spout all the nonsense I heard at the catechesis. He said that Jesus insured us that nothing will ever ruin our Church.

      So if Kiko claims that the Church is dying, he obviously has no faith in Jesus, and wants to start his parallel church. Sadly, many people in the Way are conditioned into not thinking for themselves. We were told from the very beginning not to ask questions, but to listen.

      Gladly, a good friend of mine, not in the Way, saw the impact it was having on me, and he was frightened at how closed minded I had become in just a short while. I took him nearly three years to convince me that I was becoming cult-ish.

      I owe my friend for returning me to the true path of salvation - the Catholic Church is what leads us to Christ. The Way just leads you to Kiko. I'm sorry, but he is not Christ!

      Delete
    8. It’s true the church isn’t dying and that’s because of the way! At World youth days and meeting they will have calling, if anyone feels the calling into the priest hood or the Sister hood. Where is the evil in that what money are they asking for. Also this leads you to Kiko get out of here! I’m in the way and not once have I even met Kiko so stop. What the promblem with you all (hardheaded) is that you can’t take correction, if they tell you “your living your life in a selfish way” everything becomes bad in the way check if it’s not you before attacking the way I never hear anything about other groups in the church

      Delete
  7. By a complicated process of attrition and enforced fudging, the Way has not exactly been disapproved. That is the state of affairs. In my 28 years insider experience I heard many true doctrines (especially from an earlier generation of itinerants) and appreciated space and time to study Scriptures with my friends who were deeply anchored Catholics already. There were many crucial gaps especially in prayer and in belief that God will act. The voluminous lip service is very different from belief. The marriages mend in the first three years because someone has the Christian goodness to suggest this to the couples, Way or no Way. The timings in the Way are all wrong.

    In the UK and some other countries, the Church had run out of steam in catechising its own, but that is a weak reason to affirm the bad boundaries and the power grabbing increasingly done by the higher ups of whose doings ordinary members like me hear little of. I know where 1.37 p.m and Liam are coming from and I too have enthusiastically exaggerated. The ordinary members are a front to hide the non-adherence to canon law or even to their "own statutes". St Paul: "Let everything be done decently and in good order" and that applies all the more to things done by people to other people outside liturgies. Catholics are too used to indiscriminate deference to authority so the Way doesn't look any worse than the Church often is in practice in many parts of the world. Even as my priest was coddling and pampering me and my mates, he was severely injuring others, and eventually he and the itinerants started on us. The Way does in one day to some what damage it does to others in 28 years. Inconsistency over time and space aids deniability.

    Visions of Our Lady don't guarantee holiness, it has to be worked hard for after the visions. Too many things went too wrong and stayed so. Built into the Way is the impossibility to give responsibles one's feedback. They are impervious on Sunday afternoons after tanking up at lunch. Wine is the all-important sign (alcoholics exempted).

    ReplyDelete
  8. You think you have right.Absolutely no.You are wrong.Couples speak the truth.Do you think that we shouldn't speak the truth?We should accept each person whith good and bad things if we are in marriage

    ReplyDelete
  9. Please go to sleep we are very tired after giving catechesis for 6 hours solid

    ReplyDelete
  10. Why is the eucharistic celeb of the way being done in a place, like in a conference room, other than the church where there are less where you can kneel during consecration? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to do the celebration inside the church where perhaps more parishioners will be interested in joining the way.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The short answer is that Kiko Arguello has a different theology of the Eucharist which eschews the idea that the celebration of the Eucharist is a participation in the One Sacrifice of Jesus Christ to his Father, and thus celebration on an Altar, the place of sacrifice, must be avoided.

      Delete
    2. Hello. Tim might not be wrong in saying that the Eucharist is such a celebration.

      The reason why such things are done however is purely simple: space. In the NCW it is believed that the Eucharist should be celebrated in this way, in any room possible with a table in the centre surrounded by the priest and people to commemorate it in the way it had been when Christ first gave us the sacrament of the Eucharist. It is also celebrated in smaller groups, because they form a community of brothers and sisters where everyone starts getting to know and love each other throughout their lives, similar to the Early Christian communities. Smaller communities favour a more personal relationship with everyone, which a mass setting doesn't. This, however does not mean that the church is excluded. On the contrary, when the parish permits the NCW they may have their Eucharist take place there, if the parishioners are not bothered by a temporary change of table and seating setting. New priests are invited to come celebrate Eucharist with NCW whenever they please, and when it the Eucharist is celebrated in the church, people from NCW could invite anyone who might be interested in a different religious approach. Other parishioners are invited to attend catechisms before taking part in a NCW Eucharist for the simple reason that they might not understand the otherwise unconventional methods used to celebrate mass in the NCW, as has happened in this particular situation.

      Hope this is helpful. Happy Easter!

      Delete
    3. Yes. It is very helpful. It is helpful in proving THE DEEP EVIL OF KIKO ARGUELLO. Happy Easter.

      Delete
    4. I don't know but you sound a bit too paranoid. In no way does my answer prove your point.

      You may not like the NCW and that's totally fine, but it is in no way evil. It just offers a different perspective.

      Believe me, I've seen evil. We may be wrong sometimes, but that doesn't make us bad as long as we live as close to God as possible.

      Other than that, a singular source can never satisfy the reasons for a whole argument, even if that person has claimed that OTHER people felt the same. Maybe your source has simply blown things out of proportion, because what she heard did not apply to her. It maybe applies to others who really need a DRASTIC wake up call in their life, and it worked for me.

      Delete
    5. Did I call the NCW evil? Now who is paranoid? :)

      Delete
    6. Mizzi, what exactly do you mean by this statement?Smaller communities favour a more personal relationship with everyone, which a mass setting doesn't.

      When I attend the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, on Sundays or on weekdays, it becomes my personal relationship with the Lord first, all others around me come in second. My personal relationship with the community begins with a greeting to the person near me before the Mass begins, the sign of peace and a social gathering after services are over. I don't see how a smaller community makes it different.

      What I have seen and experienced is that your bonding with your community is stronger that your bond with your own family. If the community has a gathering on the same day as your family, the community gathering comes first, family second.

      Peace

      Delete
    7. Exactly. Kiko Arguello makes the community GOD. This is the "deep evil."

      Delete
    8. @Anonymous.

      "What I have seen and experienced is that your bonding..." Oh, so you know me then? You know my bond? Fantastic mind reading!

      Never have I mentioned that my family comes after the community, and in no way have I said that the community is the most important thing.

      What the community provides is a personal meeting with God, a better understanding of the Word, and a safe space to speak about our experiences with God and our reflections of the word.

      And yes, if I have a meeting with God, that's where I'd rather be.

      God first, family second, community after whatever comes before it.

      @Tim.

      You know perfectly well what I mean. Maybe in your eyes, it is as they say: A picture reflects it's maker. So you might say: If Kiko is bad so is the NCW.

      Picking at the most significant bits and pieces I have said and playing around with them does not construct a valid argument. Repeating the same things over and over won't help in swaying anyone.

      Also, if this is the evil you have seen, you need to go out more.

      Delete
    9. Mizzi, get help removing that log from your eye.

      Delete
  11. @ Anonymous.

    "What I have seen and experienced is that your bonding..." Oh, so you know me then? You know about my bonds? Fantastic mind reading! Truly!

    At no point have I mentioned that I put my community above all else. Far from it. But what I do bring before everything else is my meeting with God. If I have dedicated a time to pray, to read and understand the word and to share my experience and reflect on what God wants to tell me with it, it is not time I spend frivolously with my community but with God.

    So just incase you decide to construct a tale about me, I'm going to make it very clear that in my life God comes first, family second, and the community after anything which comes before it.

    Either way, if (and understand that I say IF) I had decided to bring my community before my family it might be with good reason, and you are no one to judge me for my decision.

    @Tim

    You know perfectly well what I meant. Kiko is in no way evil. Not everyone who thinks differently to you is evil.

    You have on the other hand, completely missed my point on your one source. Also, picking at the bits and pieces of an argument only helps in deconstructing yours, other than showing that you have a complete disregard for anyone's opinion if they don't agree with you. Plus, repeating the same things over and over again are hardly of any benefit.

    If this is the evil you have seen, you need to go out more.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mizzi, you still have not seen the log in your eye. It seems now to be so infected that you are blind. Kiko's spittle only exacerbates your condition. I don't think Ric can do anything for you either. Get help girl.

      Delete
  12. Petty accusations. Maybe if YOU weren't blind, you could actually read what I said and explain how you managed to read my whole life story in a paragraph. Try better next time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We are sooooooooooo used to your kind. Bye.

      Delete
  13. Courage brothers. To pray for compassion and to love one another. Do not let the devil sow seeds of division. “A house divided falls”

    Both in and out of the way, we seek Jesus Christ. Courage to show compassion.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's God's, as General, to defend His Church.

      It's ours, to assert our best interpretations of doctrine. It's ours, to condemn specific objectively serious offences by specific people, and Tim and friends doing this doesn't constitute "insulting" anybody. It's ours to welcome those many of us who were just hangers on at the "communities" and those of us who are not accessories - just like me!

      (For all I know, in some locations there may be many accessories.)

      Popes John and Paul took some very confusing actions.

      The NCW has a very narrow range of "charisms" which it permits. These are not Holy Spirit powered or Holy Spirit discerning. In the better "communities" like one of those that I knew, which might be quite rare, there are some people who had the Holy Spirit before they joined or who maintain a sound spirituality as a sideline (and who are therefore suitable to showcase). Some families improve in the first few years because of the goodness of Christian hearts brought with them. The "wider" Church since the suppression of the good chapters of Easter People doesn't seem, in most places, to be daring to promote charisms at all.

      It is better to pray to God longingly for a solution than to throw our lot in with a (by worldly standards) moderately slick operation. Even the inconsistencies afford a deniability factor.

      Then if they would stick to a four (4) year upper limit on initiation and bow out of our lives after that, it might have tipped the balance of the achievement of the "way". By pushily claiming a place in our lives for 27 or 31 years, they give the lie.

      The "statute" claims the "itinerary" takes "up to" 10 years. But by then, there has not yet been any "initiation to prayer"!

      The dynamics and the boundaries are the real sign of right doctrine, not clever wordings. From many points of view however, while I was slow to realise, it seemed to me half truths were better than no truths!

      Mizzi's original comment is unsufficiently helpful because it diverts attention to liturgy away from the holds, binds, unexplained oaths, etc.

      If we are not sharp, all round, there is scope for cross purposes that don't help the neo membership any more than anyone else.

      If as cavalry we seize control of the artillery we will cause chaos that God didn't intend us to cause. So, let the defence be His above all.

      Delete
  14. Say whatever you want you want,Insult NCW whichever insult you want... Believe me,even JESUS Christ had face all those evil words but He resurrected. NCW will continue to grow ; You know why ? truth never been defeated.we will continue to pray for the world, Mad people, Churches, vulnerables.... May GOD bless everyone here.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I am doing the Way. It is useful to me, because my life have become unbearable. Possibe if there is not this condition on you, you cannot find the point. I cannot find any bad intention from the voluntary neocats in the testimony above, only the repetition of mantras that are the only truth which has been proven to save Kiko, and thousands of us.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do not be fooled, open you eyes.

      A key strategy of the Neocatechumenal way is to target the vulnerable, naive and troubled Catholics, falsely giving them a sense of belonging and pride, while subtlety using their weakness to control and manipulate them.

      Delete
    2. Yes, because we were naïve, vulnerable (as confirmed in an official report) and troubled AND lonely, and because the "way" takes up rather a lot of our time, and because there is no new blood in the "community" to refresh joint discernment, and because we were promised we were onto something extra special, and that if we stuck it we would deserve to eventually be let in on the next level of extra special (and "prayer" gets delayed and delayed because they don't honestly value it), and that we will be unlike the "losers" that were wary of it, and because the itinerants and "responsibles" claimed the right to interfere and meddle (which they don't genuinely have), and because the fixed ideology of the "way" hasn't got any space for Holy Spirit action, and because they bothered to wave under our noses "approvals" extracted from the Vatican by attrition and enforced fudging, and because they seemed connected with prestigious archdioceses (whom they are in reality an embarrassment to), and because they subscribe to the Durkheimian view of "individuals" as the figment of and to be coerced by the collective (which idea sadly has a past in the church), yes 8.50 a.m has hit the nail on the head.

      "Mantras" is what the itinerants themselves call it, as I have seen myself you have been kneejerked into reproducing the hollow jargon of those you have given control of your whole selves to (not recommended by healthy-minded psychologists).

      It took a long while to assemble enough non-neos interested in praying to unbind me from the ties, binds, bonds, "covenants", vows and oaths I had got entangled in during my lengthy acquaintance with and close observation of the "way".

      Durkheimists (c/o Kings College London) don't accept these things are essentially disorienting - especially when you aren't told about them in advance, and when there aren't plenty of honourable ways of bowing out in the interim - and also they don't know what pain is, especially someone else's.

      Dioceses should convene groups of confidential supplicaters and intercessors ready to help each other with just that (plus all the other ordinary ups and downs of life). (If they were studying Scripture in addition, they would be a more than effective substitute for the NCW.)

      As Ronald Wean and Judith Herman call for, every diocese needs its safe mutual debriefing scheme facilitated in a non-interfering manner, for participants to develop briefings in their own time, crystallise insights, and not be just dumped on each other. They can have huge belly laughs about "old" times.

      (A "covenant" sounds like something had in a "coven" !!! !!! !!!)

      Necrotising = the life ebbs out of you especially after the four years the Fathers had in mind for their REAL catechumenate; Cacoethic = bad boundaries and dynamics at the local level, never mind what plans the international element have for making "arrangements"; Witchery = sleight of hand, moving goalposts, and all that sort of stuff.

      Cheerio Pied Piper, I can breathe, I am "Crippled Hans", I am a winner!

      Delete
  16. 10.05 a.m, you have been in it less than 4 years, or less than 10 years. I hear you from close by. In practice the itinerants can't homogenise the "communities". I and my pals too, early, had good times and enlightenment. I think "mantras" is a strange word to use. Last night I shared Ps 110 with some non-neos. We found it very enlightening. Continued best wishes from me. Be on the look out for staleness, and don't forget to develop your individuality as Jesus would have you do.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I honestly understand that you want people to think for themselves. A large concern of yours (as I understand it) is that The Way indoctrinates people, and honestly that is true with some members. However, this may be true of all religious people. It is not solely characteristic of Neocats, but of people in general. In school in society, in the church, etc.

    So I will not say you are wrong. Rather, I ask you to make more posts that emphasize thinking for onself, being openminded (please exemplify this yourself as well), and most importantly, being unafraid to question the faith. How can one have faith without understanding? Obedience and humility are traits some need, but there also must be a deeper connection to the truth than that. Only by being able to understand Jesus and our faith may we foster a strong faith.

    I am in the NCW (first time I saw that abbreviation, cool and useful; wish I'd known it earlier, lol) and I say that it is OKAY to not have the same ideas as Kiko. The point isn't to become Kiko or be uniform in thinking. The point is to be a community that can correct each other with love, be willing to sacrifice time and money for our brothers and sisters in faith (and you'd be right to imply that there should be a limit; to go past the limit is always optional and the choice never should be judged), and transform ourselves into a converted Catholic. Please, I think that your message has several valid points, so specify where members of The Way have gone wrong in their thinking and try offering ideas of reform. I ask that you do not cast judgment upon members. Pity them if you'd like, but never forget to offer love or understanding.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Yes I'm commenting years later,but what the heck. One simple observation from someone that knows a lot of people in the way, and has even been part of it in the past.
    I have never met more judgemental people in my life. My mother & my aunts have been in the community for about 30 years. They don't speak to each other anymore & they are full of misery. I also have many close friends in the way. They are close minded & very judgemental towards anyone that doesn't follow their beliefs, and behind close doors they even recognize this. I always watch what I say around them for fear of being ridiculed. I always wonder how someone can be part of something "good" for decades and not change in a positive manner at all. Anyway this is just my experience & maybe not the case for everyone.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear anonymous from November 25 2021. Your comments, even 5 years later are still pertinent to this grave issue. Christ warned us of the false prophets that will rise. The way as an organization is just that, the relay of false prophets. Kiko does not have the mental capacity to come up with all the ideas put forward. It was Carmen who was the brain of the Triumvirat.
      Now that she is gone Kiko is a lot quieter while the knives have been unsheathed around him. Like all sect, the way is populated by many well meaning good people. Unfortunately pointing the problems, leads them to feel attacked personally it is not specific of the Way, but it is tragic none the less. We shall pray for your family members that they might discern the truth and stop endangering their souls.
      Best wishes for this new year, which should uncover more of the evil lurking in our midst.

      Delete