Tuesday, April 29, 2014

ARE THERE NO MEN AMONG YOU?


To see the context for the following go here.
Thanks Tim for the attention given to my comment. It doesnt deserve it but I will take it gratis. Lets just be clear about one thing, I am not Fr. Adrian or Msgr. David, I am anonymous who chooses to remain anonymous on my own will.Why do I stay anonymous? To show that one does not need to be an ordained or a person who has been theologically educated. I do all my reading freely and on my own will. 
Oh, I see. Makes a lot of sense now. 

1. I do not kick Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI to the curb. You have done so. I only state the obvious. I only bring this up because I know for a fact that many of you who oppose the NCW on this blog all belong to same group, people who have left their parishes not because of the NCW but because you spend more time keeping tabs on the indirect abuses happening in our regular Sunday Masses. This keeping tabs has tired you and now you find Heaven at the Friary with Fr. Eric, a pastor who I admire too.
Oh, really? What group is that? People who "find Heaven at the Friary" would be interested to know that they are in this group. Obviously you are referring to the people who attend the Latin Mass. There are about 40 people who regularly attend. About half of those are children and young people. Of the 20 or so adults who attend, two of them no longer talk to me because of this blog, and only one person that I know of has made a comment or two. Chuck White has his own blog and only comments here in response to criticisms and questions of his own blog posts. Pretty amazing that you know so much about so little. But we've come to expect that from your side. I also understand, given that you are actually unable to intelligently engage any of my arguments, that the only thing left to you is to personally attack me by trying to profile me as part of some reactionist group. Sorry, dude, I work alone. 
2. Yes you have faithful followers and it is very evident on this blog. You call me coward and idiot but on the contrary these followers of yours didnt have the guts to speak out before you, you are all victims of each other.
I see, so that somehow excuses you from being a coward and an idiot.
You have said on many occasions, Show me the permission. As many times as you have asked, you have answered your own request.
Yes, I have. My asking is rhetorical because there is no document. I ask for the document to illustrate the point that the Neocatechumenal Way, or at least the Kiko's like you, act on your own and outside the norms and permissions of the church.
You want to talk about idiocy, you were the first to take this route. NCW members only entered on this blog to defend what they do know about the NCW. 
Well then they are bad little Neos aren't they? According to Kiko, Neos aren't supposed to defend what they know. They are supposed to take such attacks as a sign that their way is the true way. We are Judases. Kiko calls us necessary. You are supposed to be grateful for the persecutions. Read what Kiko says here
When ever this happened, it was you who responded with name calling. Even to this day I have not seen anyone refer to you with the demeaning titles that you have used against pro NCW commenters.
Let's see now, what demeaning titles would those be? Coward? What else to call people like you who hide in the bushes and throw your ad hominum stones? Come out in the clear light of day and engage my arguments like an adult. I don't have a problem with people who differ with my views. I have a problem with people who can't engage my views so they try to discredit me. Once it becomes about me then I get to call you coward. Don't like it, then meet me.  And "idiot"? What else to call people like you who make malicious and ignorant generalizations like the one you just made about the supposed group I belong to. For the record, I only know one person in that "group" who opposes the NCW. I know MANY more who are not in that "group" who oppose the NCW. MANY, MANY MORE!
I dont know how to explain your concept of revealing what you think to be important information that will shake the foundations of the NCW on Guam. You keep using it as a way to threaten the NCW to "shut up or else". Whats the wait for? This is not the first time that you said you will reveal it and then only to not deliver. Lets have at it. If our faith is strong what you have will have not shake it.

Why do you continue to hold on to it. According to your mentality it only goes against you, because the more you wait, the more the faithful on Guam will suffer.
You have just demonstrated why I wait: to see people like you scratch where it doesn't even itch. But actually I'm saving it for when the Archbishop makes another personal attack on me as he did when he went to Rome to get the Grand Master of the Knights to do something about me. Read about it here, here, and here. You're just going to have to wait...and scratch. 
You know what is right. In the same way that you assume that the leaders of the NCW are discouraging taking part in this blog, I bet your spiritual director is telling you the same, yet you choose to be disobedient. Its about time you take your actions your choice of words to prayer.
You are right. I DO KNOW what is right. I have seen both Kiko and the Archbishop give Rome the finger and that is WRONG. I saw the Archbishop abuse his power and bring false allegations against a priest whose spiritual and material well-being has been entrusted to his care. I saw the Archbishop try to give away a major asset of the Archdiocese and then illegally terminate the members of the finance council who opposed him, a council tasked by Canon Law to keep out of control bishops from doing exactly this. I saw the people of Guam lied to for a decade about how RMS was our seminary for our priests, and when confronted with the truth that it was not, we all saw a fake seminary "erected" to cover for that lie. I saw a son of Guam LIED TO by the Archbishop about why he could not attend a non-Neo seminary. I saw a neo-priest incardinated here in an instant while beloved priests from the Philippines were denied incardination, some of whom have served us for decades. I saw the Archdiocese lie about its mission status so that it could keep sucking money out of the Catholic Extension Society - money that could have been better used for true mission lands - while we spend hundreds of thousands flying guys in here from all over the world, putting them up in a palace, "educating" them, and flying them all over the world so they can do things like spend Holy Week with their homies. I also see "priests" being spit out of the Yona presbyter factory who have serious psychological problems, who are seriously theologically deficient (since they were fed Kiko's), who abuse the confessional, and who don't even know how to say Mass. Shall I go on? And you try to bully me into silence with your spiritual director bull crap. 
You are getting very desperate with your attempts and your recklessness is showing itself.

Maybe your apologetic skills are weakening or maybe rather than defending the Catholic Church you are beginning to defend your definition of Church. While your at it, can you just post up all the other comments that you did not approve. Joy! 
I think we can all see who is getting desperate. Even the fact that you cowardly hide behind your anonymous bush tells us that. Are there no men among you?

24 comments:

  1. You are losing this, Tim.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So long as you are afraid to use your name, I win. Joy! BTW how's that annual appeal/demand coming?

      Delete
    2. It's me the Anon Chicken. I don't attend the Latin Mass and I have not seen or talk to Tim in a very long time except through comments on this blog. I apologize to Tim again for the fact that I do not use my name. My name belongs to many and I can't speak for them so I stay a nameless chicken. I am sorry Tim. The person saying that we who are opposing the Archbishop belong to a group? We don't. We belong to the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church. Some of us have family members who belong to the Neo movement which makes it harder for us. Some of us truly love and care for the Redemptious Seminarians because we believe they are sincere men and we believe in the Church. Who are we then? We are Catholics who see a lot of things that are looking like the work of the Devil. Things that are not right. We may not have degrees of Theology or letters and titles after our names, but we do know how to recognize that something is wrong. How do we know each other? Simply by being a part of the Parish's around the island and attending functions and fiesta's and Baptism's, First Communion's, Confirmation's, weddings and various parties. We mingle and greet and socialize openly. We recognize each other by our attendance at various Mass occasions. We don't belong to communities and wait for in-house promotions at retreats. We are all equal as we sit together on a pew at Mass. We love God, the Church, and Faith and Hope, etc. We simply care and that is why we are praying that the Lord will hear our prayers and send his army of Angels down to quiet the Devil who has taken control over our ArchDiocese. I think our leaders are being mislead with the idea of power and glory. Pray everyone that remember that we should always work for the Glory of God and Him alone. (gotta go back to work)

      Delete
    3. According to the umatuna Yigo and Barrigada gave the largest amount. Only about 1/5 (A FRACTION) of the 253k(THE WHOLE) is collected and reported so far.

      So maybe it is through this collection that the silent majority are making it know where they really stand.
      I believe there is a gala coming up, so NCW fork it out and make up the difference!

      Delete
    4. Your not losing Tim, your winning! You have the courage to stick your neck out everyday, risking so much (reputation, relationships, safety, etc.) so that we may know the truth about the Neocatechumenal Way and what is happening behind the walls of our local church. Thank you for all the work that you do.

      There are many of us out here who you have empowered, through this blog, to reach out to family and friends who are part of the Neocatechumenal Way, or who are curious and actively being recruited. My mother is part of a community and has gone through the first scrutiny. I have noticed a lot of positive changes in her since she became a member, but the glow that she had in the beginning seems to be fading a bit. Think it's because of the cult like atmosphere created in Neo communities. I lovingly asked her about some of the controversial issues I read about, and asked about her personal experiences. I didn't want to push too hard out of fear of driving her away. My hope is that she only continues with her eyes open , instead following blindly. However, she did say that she is starting to notice that almost everything is about Kiko. She also told me about one of her co-workers, who was told to her to quite her job and leave her sick parent, for off island missionary work. She left the Way because she was continuously pressured and treated differently after she refused to leave her sick parent.

      Delete
    5. Yigo passes that basket around more than once. The second collection is going to the annual appeal. Of course Barrigada will give, because Barrigada is made up mainly of neos and Fr. Adrian is their pastor. Can't disappoint him or you will suffer at his hands.
      Tim has exposed the TRUTH! Of course the ncw members don't want to hear it. And if you don't want to read it, don't come and play in the jungle.
      This Archbishop is the cause of so much injustice in the local Church. Even if Fr. Adrian is the one who denied Aaron, the Archbishop can assert his authority and do the right thing for Aaron and all the other young men who desire a traditional diocesan formation. This Archbishop is more concerned with power and prestige than he is about the people of Guam that he is supposed to shepherd. Neos are blinded and comments like the ones this guy is making are pathetic. Instead of seeking the truth, you resort to the low life name calling that is so typical and infamous of the Neocatechumenal members who are obviously a part of a cover up.
      Do you think it is right that Guam's people spend their hard earned money to bring in men from foreign countries and then pay more money to house, feed and educate them? We didn't ask for them and we don't want them. We have local men like Aaron who want to serve their people. Aaron and these other men shouldn't have to search for another diocese. They are from THIS Archdiocese! Why don't these foreign men go back to their country and study for their people and their church? Do you think it is right that the Archbishop deny Aaron Quitugua and other men who hear a calling to the priesthood because they don't want to be formed under the Neo way? Shame on you for your attacks. Go to confession and instead of bashing Tim and the rest of us Catholics faithful to the Magisterium, go tell the Archbishop to do the right thing for Guam's people, because right now, he is NOTHING to us! Your brother Tony needs to seriously redeem himself to earn respect from us common folk. Then again, he, like you, doesn't even care about that. It's not about the people - it's about the power. Remember that one day your brother Tony will have to account for his sins against the people of Guam, against his clergy, against men like Aaron who are being prevented from their discernment. You need to get off your high horse mister and shut up! Go play with Diana.

      Delete
    6. During the Chrism Mass, the Archbishop "apologized" for offending anyone, and asked for forgiveness because he is only human. Yes, he is human, but he has also been given a huge responsibility of leadership. So Archbishop, put your money where your mouth is and start doing the right thing for the entire Church, not for your selected few. You want us to forgive you? Be an Archbishop - be a father - to ALL of us, not just your neo brothers and sisters. Put an end to all this division that YOU have caused in this Archdiocese.
      God help us!

      Delete
    7. We have the Sacrament of Confession or "Reconciliation" so that we be reconciled with God, directly, after having offended Him. By going to confession to a Priest we know and believe, as Catholics, that in the confessional the Priest takes the place of God to whom we confess to and ask forgiveness from, directly.

      If we aren't aware that we have offended God, we’re taught as Catholics that it is therefore not a sin; nor does God expect us to ask forgiveness for something we did not know we sinned to Him against.

      I don’t understand the point or purpose of a public gesture or request for forgiveness if one does not know if one offended any one specifically; and if one does know full well of the offense and of the offended then, one is called to seek forgiveness directly from the offended individual/s and then demonstrate the sincerity by repenting!

      Offering forgiveness without repentance, I would think, does not follow the biblical model of seeking forgiveness. Luke 17:3,4

      Delete
    8. I also attended that Holy Week mass at the cathedral where the archbishop "apologized" if he had offended anyone. I had a hard time keeping a straight face. I immediately thought of Fr. Gofigan and Aaron Quitugua not to mention all us non NCW who have been deceived and all the priests and deacons pressured to participate in the NCW. Why make an insincere apology? What does that achieve?

      Delete
    9. Dear Anon Chicken. Thanks for the opportunity to clarify. I have no issue with those who want to engage the conversation anonymously. I DO have an issue who want to come after me by name but not use theirs. And to further clarify. It is quite understandable that non-Neos would have fear. They are going up against people who have authority over them and may have concerns for the repercussions on them and their families. The same is not true for the Neo side. They have the chancery on their side and it is they who are trying to witness to us the glory of the Neocatechumenal Way. Yet they choose to stay hidden. Obviously this discredits their message and confirms our suspicions.

      Delete
    10. At 8:40pm. You are correct. Saying I'm sorry if I hurt anyone is a pretty sorry sorry. It means nothing. In fact, it could mean the opposite: I'm sorry you were hurt by what I did or said. But NOT sorry about what I did or said. Obviously there was no apology ot Fr. Paul or Aaron. How sad. The only quarter we can give the archbishop in this case is the thought that he might have just been following orders. I'm pretty sure he was.

      Delete
  2. "yet you choose to be disobedient."

    O MY!!!.... it is very hard to read all of this.
    dear whoever U R, I am NOT from here however, what Tim is fighting here, we are fighting in the States!!
    my point: Kiko & Carmen have been "disobedient" to 3, count them THREE!! Popes, one of whom is a Saint!
    You really need to do your homework.
    " disobedient" ... that means NOT in union w/Rome. Now I am sure you must realise that as CATHOLICS, we are obliged to obedience to the Holy Father.


    "You are getting very desperate with your attempts "

    I've got a cluebat for you whoever U R.
    YOU HAVE BEEN KIKOCONNED.


    TAKEAWAY QUOTE ~ "things like spend Holy Week with their homies." That's a Classic Tim. lol! & THAT is exactly what happened in my Parish on Easter Vigil.

    '....and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.' Matthew 16:17-19

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I did my homework not by Hearsay but facts.

      Delete
    2. homework 'FACT' ex.1: "Their doctrine is seriously compromised with errors against fundamental dogmatics of the Church, the Popes and the Councils. They negate the Redemption, the sacrificial character of the Eucharist, the transubstantiation, etc... they misunderstand the sin and the Grace concepts... their doctrinal statements are fundamentally wrong." FATHER ENRICO ZOFFOLI, http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/68419142?access_key=key-gtynyl13v8fph3em0j1

      suggested reading: the Neocatechumenal Way (which arrogantly calls itself "The Way") http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2006/01/neocatechumenal-way-sits-for-lord-and.html

      homework fact ex.2: "Christianity for Kiko is "disgusting" (Catechism of Kiko, p 283). He says that common people (NOT the Neocatechumenals) "believe that we are all sons of God... (but) ...Thanks God that today things are changing: there are Marxist people who do not call themselves Christians because with this Christianity nothing good has been obtained... We were not Christians, we knew nothing of Christianity, we are prechristians..." To Kiko only some who complete the Neocatechumenal steps are Christians and sons of God." http://eraofpeace.tripod.com/nchchurch.html

      ex.#4: please note both neo-cat videos have been rendered 'does not exist'...hmmmm. http://charismatic-heresy.blogspot.com/2007/02/neocatechumenal-way.html

      but here is the crux of all of this: "The NCW has left a trail of familial destruction across the globe, and "ex-members" have even taken legal recourse against NCW." @ http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2011/01/benedict-xvi-neocatechumenal-way-is.html?showComment=1295461717046#c3920977687817204806

      THIS IS THE NEXT BIG SCANDAL TO ROCK THE CHURCH. please feel free to be a part of it.

      Delete
  3. Sorry Tim, but I have to imitate Benjamin here...blah blah blah blah blah. The NCW continue to say the same thing over and over again. Please! You are a member of a cult, and for that, we are sorry. But to hear your constant complaints about Tim and the "bad fruit" he produces. I beg to differ. This blog has produced an awareness that the people of Guam need and answers that we have been searching for. We have been oppressed by a bishop who cannot separate his love for the neocatechumenal way from his responsibility to the Church on Guam. There is a silent majority and through Tim and his courageousness, that silent majority is beginning to not be so silent anymore. Because of our oppression and the fact that this Archbishop and his advisors hold grudges, many of us must still remain anonymous.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anon Chicken what evil did the NCW produce? You feeding off the blog here? Hmmmmmmm. Can you point it out and don't wait for Tim to help you. What you stated is serious accusation the word EVIL. CHRIST FORBID SLANDER. Your pissing against the wind here I hope you realize.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear "pissing against the wind". Please tell us you are not a seminarian.

      Delete
  5. We continue to pray for you Aaron.

    ReplyDelete
  6. "And "idiot"? What else to call people like you who make malicious and ignorant generalizations like the one you just made about the supposed group I belong to. For the record, I only know one person in that "group" who opposes the NCW."

    I invite you to check again and clarify. There are bad apples who are making your "group" victims of this generalization. I know for a fact of more than a handful of people who attend the TLM who are on this blog commenting against the NCW. There are others who also on your JW Facebook page are "liking" your anti-NCW posts and you say you only know of two.
    By the way "ad hominum" is defined:
    An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.

    Everything I have shared is relevant in regards to the topic. When you enter into a debate or argument everything about you is relevant. Even the selection of jurors for a court case is extensive because of this. You already know this but you choose to mislead your readers. This is why I choose to comment here, for the love of those who do not know better, those who are being misled by their judgments and by your influence. Ive tried to share with you also but you have denied because of my anonymity. You wanting a name shows the amount of faith we are dealing with.

    To accuse me of ad hominum is false. Joy!

    hope you be man enough to post this up.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous at 3:37 pm, I can't take you seriously. I'm quite certain you are no match for Tim, as everything he has stated on this blog has been backed by fact. He links every source, gives clear and concise reasons, and even produces direct links to documents as needed. He does not rely upon "word of mouth" as you Kiko's do.Tim is man enough to defend our faith publicly, with his name on the line. Many of the anti-neo anons remain anonymous because they, like myself, have friends and relatives who are a part of your cult. To expose ourselves would be harmful to our relationships with them. There is no reasoning with you Kiko's. As long as you cling to your precious leaders, you cannot be helped. It is truly sad.
      I strongly recommend you quit your attempts to discredit Tim Rohr as you are ill-equipped. Stop embarrassing yourself.

      Delete
  7. Whoa!!!! I have been relatively silent due to Lent and a very busy schedule.
    Really the Neos and their successive anonymous are getting vociferous!!!
    Probably the fruits of Tim's fight to shade light on the inequities happening in this Diocese are starting to bear.
    The desperation of the arguments, the personal attacks over and over again, regarding anything and everything are demonstrating that this blog has had an impact past our best hopes.
    People are waking up, and the liars and afabulators that prefer to hide in the darkness and the shade are feeling the power of the light shining on their misdeeds.
    The more desperate your attacks, the stronger our resolve.
    The best of the neos' arguments is that two wrong make a right...which we all know from a tender age, is a lie.
    The leaders of the Archdiocese and of the "Way" have things in common in their approach to manipulate people to their false message, and this is their Achille's heel.
    Stay strong Tim, Stay strong people of Guam, the moment of truth is nearing everyday these false prophet weave their evil web....
    St Michael the Archangel......
    Holy Mary mother of GOD......
    Keep praying the Rosary and ask the help of the Archangel to help us fight this evil.....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh dear PAGANISM IS AT HELM.....

      Delete
  8. I can't get over how you can immediately tell a neo to a non neo just by their remarks on this blog. Wow!!!

    ReplyDelete

Recommendations by JungleWatch