Monday, June 2, 2014


David G. is one of the saner representatives of the Neocatechumenal Way, at least as represented on this blog, so I found the following exchange with him rather useful.

  • Evil never appears as evil. Like Satan in the Garden, it appears as something good, it appears to make sense. It even bears fruit...for a time. Kiko declared war on the Holy Catholic Faith when he refused to comply with the Pope's 2005 instruction. He didn't just "disagree". He disobeyed and taught his millions to do the same. You are one.
  • Tim, you keep insisting that Kiko declared war, you keep insisting that he has disobeyed, but tell me why the Pope has not recognized this? Tell me why the investigation on the NCW was dropped? Tell me why YOU think you are smarter than our holy father? Do you think the Popes have failed? It is implied with what you are saying.
  • David, excellent example of Neo narcissism: Because we haven't been slapped yet, it must be okay. Do you know anything about history. Do you know how long and hard Pope Pius V worked behind the scenes to keep Henry VIII from splitting from the Church? Do you know anything about how the Church worked with Luther, Nestorius, Arius...? How do you know the investigation wasn't stopped because the object of the investigation was achieved and that Pope Francis opted for a more pastoral approach to the corrections needed than simply a severe disciplinary one. His talk to the Neos on Feb. 1 certainly indicated this, as well as his instruction to Kiko to conform to your charter. Stop being immature about it. Read your statute and tell us why you do not conform to it, not just about how you are getting away with not doing so.
  • Like I always say, you never know to the end. We do conform Tim. Accept it. And if we are wrong, I will admit that we are wrong.
  • 1. Does the priest communicate after he has distributed the consecrated host?
    2. Do you consume the host seated?
    3. Do you wait to consume the host till all have received?
  • David? David? Where'd you go, man? I'll check back in an hour or so.
  • You know the answers to the questions. Why should i reply?
  • You said "we do conform, accept it." You don't conform. You just admitted it.
  • To my knowledge we do. I will stand corrected when the Pope says so. I know you'll say "Because we haven't been slapped yet, it must be okay." Then you will claim me to be narcissist. The truth we be told in the end, if the NCW is really "disobeying" then thank you for trying your best to get it in our skulls. But I hope in return if you are wrong, you'll understand and accept it.
  • David. Let me try again. Suppose I am openly, publicly, and flagrantly receiving Holy Communion while I am in a state of mortal sin (such as living as an adulterer). Suppose the priest does not say anything to me and continues to allow me to receive communion. Have I not sinned because the priest has not told me that I have sinned, or have I sinned by the fact itself?

    Another scenario. Every day, sadly, many people excommunicate themselves from the Church for deliberately procuring an abortion or assisting someone in doing so. The Pope does not issue an edict of excommunication for these instances. One is excommunicated by the fact itself.

    Every Sunday, hundreds of priests, not just neos, take liberties with the liturgy not authorized by the Missal or its Instruction. Insofar as they do, they violate their "charter" every bit as much as you do. The pope does not have a police force to go around peeking into every liturgy. This is why the duty falls to the bishop who is the guardian of the liturgy (and of course the entire Catholic Faith) in his diocese.

    So while you are waiting for the Pope to spank your hands, the pope is actually waiting for the bishops to do their job. Some do. Ours doesn't. But regardless, intelligent faithful people should know what their Church requires and should question any priest who departs from those requirements.

    There may be things we do not know about, a special permission in some cases. If there is, then the priest has the duty to prevent scandal to educate his congregation. This is why we have simply asked our Archbishop to educate us. If there is a permission to deviate from your charter, then he is complicit in the sin of scandal for not teaching us. If there isn't said permission, then he is complicit in the flagrant violation of your charter.

  • At this point, the conversation ended. But perhaps we will take it up again. While I'd be curious as to how he would respond to my last point, we can pretty much guess that the stock answer of every Neo is: so long as the Pope hasn't stopped us what we do must be approved. It's an answer that I just don't find in the real world of responsible people.


    1. Could David G. be Msgr. David Quituga, the Vicar General?

    2. No, it is not him. Monsignor writes and thinks better than David G, and will not be silly in his responses.

    3. "You know the answers to the questions. Why should i reply?" So, the Neos admit that they don't follow their statutes but view the Pope's failure to physically intervene and arrest their activities as the Pope's tacit support for their non-compliance. Interesting. I suppose if Pope Francis sent the Neos a directive asking them to conform with their statutes that they would disobey that as well as there would be no principled basis for not following the one but following the other. The Neos have made it clear: it will take a physical intervention from Rome to stop their abuse of the Eucharist. Any other act by Rome, will be viewed as its approval of the NCW and the NCW's practices.

      When I tell Catholic friends in the States that Neos in Guam, after receiving the Eucharist standing, do not eat it but walk back to their chairs and sit down with it, hold it, and at a later time eat it, these friends think I'm lying. Just think about that, Kiko-ites: your treatment of the Eucharist is so abusive that people who know nothing about the NCW are unwilling to believe that any person who called himself Catholic would engage in such conduct. By the way, does anyone know whether the way Neos on Guam treat the Eucharist is particular to Guam Neos or is this the universal conduct of the worldwide Neo church?

      Also, I note that the Neos interpret "receive" the Eucharist to mean merely to accept possession of the Eucharist, not consume it. But if "receive" means merely to accept possession then one could "receive" the Eucharist, put it in his pocket and go home with it and be in perfect conformity with the liturgical books. Clearly, this cannot be what the Church means by "receive." Rather it just shows the extraordinary intellectual dishonesty which the Neos must engage in in order to continue their abusive practices.

    4. Dear David G,
      Save your energy for something that is far greater than this blog. Tim asks you and others from the NCW for answers but even if you give an answer, it will not be good enough. Ive tried time and time again. We can only do so much and at a certain point we have to realize that no one is listening or at the worse, no one cares. It was very consoling to see that many people came out for the Mission during these past Sundays of Easter. It aint about the numbers, but it was very encouraging to know that there are people who are open to what the NCW strives to do, and that is to proclaim the Kerygma to all nations. This is not the Kerygma of the NCW or Kiko, it is the Good News of Jesus Christ. So you see, despite the evil that exists on this blog, there is still hope beyond this. Not hope for the NCW to increase but hope that allows every christian to return to the church, to be victorious over their sin, to know once more that there is a God that loves them. It took me long to realize that this blog doesn't matter. It is increasing to their liking but not according to the will of God. So yes the persecution is good, we learn from it. Thanks Tim for this Blog! Joy!

      1. You're welcome. Actually you've given NO ANSWER other than you haven't been stopped. Demanding that the pope do something about your liturgical abuses is like saying until Governor Calvo tells me to stop exceeding the speed limit I guess I'm not breaking the law. Your abuses are not frightening, your immaturity is.


    Recommendations by JungleWatch