Friday, May 15, 2015

KIKO'S TROPHIES

AN UNEXPECTED TRIP TO ISRAEL: CATHOLIC-JEWISH DIALOGUE



By Rabbi Jonathan Kligler | May 8, 2015

"Kiko not only had a big personality, he had a huge ego. He talked about himself at great length to us, his captive audience. My first impression – one that never abated much – was that all of the rabbis were there, at least in part, as Kiko’s trophies to be displayed to the Vatican hierarchy that was there, as if to show how important the Neocatechumenal Way had become."

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Some notes to consider after you read the article. 

The author is no doubt of a liberal bent - as you will surmise - and he loses it a bit when he ventures into the pre-Vatican II stereotypical caricature of the the church's supposed teaching that the Jews were "Christ-killers". There is no such official teaching by the church, pre-Vatican II or otherwise. The Church has always officially taught no more and no less than what is recorded in Scripture. The Vatican II document, Nostra Aetate - noted in this article - while repudiating acts of anti-semitism by some Christians, simply restates what the Church has always officially held.

In fact, the Council of Trent (1563), the Council so viciously maligned by Kiko, lays the blame for Christ's death on all people, but most especially Christians who persist in sin:
"In this guilt are involved all those who fall frequently into sin; for, as our sins consigned Christ the Lord to the death of the cross, most certainly those who wallow in sin and iniquity crucify to themselves again the Son of God, as far as in them lies, and make a mockery of Him. This guilt seems more enormous in us than in the Jews, since according to the testimony of the same Apostle: If they had known it, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory; while we, on the contrary, professing to know Him, yet denying Him by our actions, seem in some sort to lay violent hands on him.  
Furthermore men of all ranks and conditions were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. Gentiles and Jews were the advisers, the authors, the ministers of His Passion: Judas betrayed Him, Peter denied Him, all the rest deserted Him." (Article IV)




31 comments:

  1. Rabbi Jonathan: The Way had all the markings of a cult of personality.

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    1. You mean: Tim jones has all the markings of a cult of personality. give all those useless donation. Taotaomo'na

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  2. The highly respected Rabbi Kligler also said, "My rabbinic colleagues and I all felt that this group seemed like a Catholic Chabad."

    Perhaps we would do well to study the Chabad, a Hasidic sect within Judaism, if we want to learn how the egotistical Kiko truly views himself and his movement. The Chabad's controversial messianism interests Guiseppe Gennarini so much that he wrote about it.

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    1. Explain the more positive note this Rabbi wrote about at the end . Was he giving a big boom on the NCW and it's mission? I am sure Diana with the help of Pius will take this positive note and write on it.

      I figured out that all historical account posts written on her blog were made by Pius.

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    2. Busy guy, that pizza pie!

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  3. Ahhhh, Guiseppe! Does your conscience prick you at all? Hm.mm. Didn't think so.. Big time operator.

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    1. Here is anther clipping from Giuseppe..

      Giuseppe Gennarini, of the Neocatechumenal leaders in the United States, told The Jewish Week that his movement aims at “rediscovery, and the first thing we discover in the faith is the Jewish roots, we discover the word of God, we discover Abraham, we discover the Exodus and the Passover. With rediscovery comes love. We are grateful to the Jews for what they have given to us, to help us know God.”

      He prefers to think of Jews, not as an “elder brother,” as some Christians say, but as a “parent,” because in the Bible “there were so often difficulties between brothers, such as with Esau and Jacob, and Joseph and his brothers. So we say, not brothers, but you are our parent, our father in the faith.” 

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    2. Read: They had funding for a hundred rabbis. All expense paid for 100 rabbis???? Plus Cardinals, bishops??? The rabbi was in awe of the land and buildings. Where did all the money come from??? Can anybody do the Math?? Seriously, people, what is this???? No one else questioning??? Anything???

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    3. All expenses paid to Israel. That's a key element of Kiko's influence peddling in the Catholic Church.

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    4. Its a good question considering that the NCW Statutes claim

      "§ 1. The Neocatechumenal Way, being an itinerary of Catholic formation that is implemented in the dioceses through services freely given, has no material goods of its own."

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    5. Accounting doesn't exist in the NCW. It's a sort if money laundering were money is sent to the top. Members are never given reports on were their tithing goes. They just give without questioning because they are taught not to question the catechists. That is why you never see the Diana group doubt the archbishops actions or even accept the possibility that he makes mistakes.

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    6. Well said chuck. I wonder how much money Apuron paid into HQ towards the travel bill for 100 rabbis. Problem with all this is that Guam money to support the church is being aimlessly used to support this cult and it's activities abroad. Money should be kept in Guam to support the men and women religious. My concern would be for the sisters of mercy and Carmel sisters who need medical care in old age. If money is sent off island supporting this useless cult what about Guam's own men and women religious. Guam Catholics must guard their own finances and protect its own priests and nuns. Unfortunately Apuron has no concern for anyone but himself. Self centered individual.

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    7. Because the seminary is ours, except we can never use it until the end of times. So NCW has nothing. : ((( poor things. As Diana says, " God Provides. ". Yes he does Pizza Pie. Handsomely. He provided for Archdoicese of Agana. Guess we misunderstood.

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    8. Thank you, Ms Herrero, for standing up for Brother Tony. Guess you had plenty time to pour over his legal proofs. What is your understanding of the word perpetuity? Please don't call me basher in public. One more thing, is Father Walsh NCW spokesperson on social issues for NCW? Hmmm.

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    9. Ms. Herrero is just another neo puppet etgui tasked with wiping the archpuppet's behind. She cannot change the fact that the Neos have exclusive use of the former hotel although it was intended as a gift for ALL Guam Catholics. Simply put, Tony deliberately screwed the rest of us. Herrero would be singing a different tune if Tony screws her over.

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    10. Ahhhh, Tim, the truth is revealed! You want the hotel Accion for a world destination Casino. And the clever officers of CCOG the board of directors....this a a brilliant idea. Jobs all around. booze from Mari Flors company. Payments in perpetuity to the Archpuppet of Guam. More flights into Guam. Booming economy.

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    11. Now, now, Anon @ 0953...calm down, you obviously forgot the right mixture to put into the Kool Aid. When you come back down from your kikohigh, we will talk about your illusions of grandeur about a Casino Royale. We need not go through all that conflict, just tell your archpuppet to produce pertinent truthful documentation and this blog will be put to better use than grandiose architectural musings. Too much to ask because there are no supporting documentation? Well, I'll be damned by such lying bastard!

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    12. I believe 9:53 is being facetious and having some fun, especially since he/she calls Apuron the "archpuppet".

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  4. Anon 2:54pm: Giuseppe Gennarini may prefer to think of the Jewish people as a "parent", but it was St. John Paul II who said, during a visit to the Rome Synagogue on 13 April 1986, "You are our dearly beloved brothers and, in a certain way, it could be said that you are our elder brothers."

    So, "elder brothers" it is, as far as I am concerned. And as special as the Jews are to us, we do have some difficulties with our elder brothers on the triune nature of God and on the preexisting Second Person, and his Incarnation. Kiko has some trouble with Trinity and the preexistence of Jesus - maybe Giuseppe Gennarini could tell us why.

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    1. Why are they kissing up to the Jews who don't believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God?

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    2. Because Kiko doesn't believe Jesus is God.
      http://thoughtfulcatholic.com/?page_id=44045

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    3. Why would the Jewish rabbis be interested in coming to hear Kiko speak? What's in it for them? Surely, others more in line with their beliefs offer them all-expenses paid trips.

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  5. inflated ego. cult of personality. hours of speechifying. you don't have to be a traditional or learned Catholic to notice these things. but it takes brainwashing to allow these things to control you. this is a powerful and dangerous force we have to oppose and drive out of our community.

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  6. “Progress” of dogmas is, in reality, nothing but corruption of dogmas … I absolutely reject the heretical doctrine of the evolution of dogma, as passing from one meaning to another, and different from the sense in which the Church originally held it. And likewise, I condemn every error by which philosophical inventions, or creations of the human mind, or products elaborated by human effort and destined to indefinite progress in the future are substituted for that Divine Deposit given by Christ to the faithful custody of the Church . . . Condemned and proscribed is the error that dogmas are nothing but interpretations and evolutions of Christian intelligence which have increased and perfected the little seed hidden in the Gospel.
    Pope St. Pius X

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  7. To: Bishop Apuron:
    From: Pope St. Pius X, 'Editae Saepe'

    'Venerable brethren, there is only one piece of advice that I offer to you: watch over your seminaries and over candidates for the priesthood.

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  8. Because of it, some of our young clerics, animated by that spirit of unbridled criticism which holds sway at the present day, have come to lose all respect for the learning which comes from our great teachers, the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, the interpreters of revealed doctrine.

    If ever you have in your seminary one of those new-style savants, get rid of him without delay; on no account impose hands upon him. You will always regret having ordained even one such person: never will you regret having excluded him.'

    Pope St. Pius X, 'Allocution to the Bishops', December 12, 1904

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  9. Pope St. Pius X, 'Our Apostolic Mandate'

    'Obviously the need of this Christian instruction is accentuated by the decline of our times and morals. It is even more demanded by the existence of those public schools, lacking all religion, where everything holy is ridiculed and scorned. There both teachers' lips and students' ears are inclined to godlessness. We are referring to those schools which are unjustly called neutral or lay. In reality, they are nothing more than the stronghold of the powers of darkness.'

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  10. So true, rey d. On the other hand, a groundedness in the Catholic Faith based on knowledge and understanding of authentic Catechetical Teachings and Beliefs as taught and as interpreted from Holy Scripture, Devine Revelation and Sacred Tradition by the Magisterium is what will thwart and counter foreign attempts to condition, brainwash and fill the mind with erroneous and heretical teachings of cult-like entities like ncw.

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  11. Looking at the money they have to fund such an event, building, activity, etc., is scary. Things don't smell right and I can see why Rome is moving very slow with this issue. There are possibly many things going on that need to be dealt with. Anyone with that much money and power is something to watch. Someone told me once that I shouldn't get too worried, not that I shouldn't continue to pray for a good outcome, or that I shouldn't stand for the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church and safeguard the actual Church Teachings, BUT that there is one thing sure in this life. God is God and He will live forever. Kiko and Carmen are human and no matter how much power and money they pull together, they will one day be a footnote to a time in Church History, (if even a footnote) We need to Trust that God knows what he is doing and He allows these things to happen and we need to arm ourselves with knowledge to know how to defend the Catholic Church and the True Catholic Teachings. Alot of us need to really learn how to call on the Holy Spirit for guidance. I'm still learning.

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    1. Amen. Words of wisdom indeed.

      However, I will remain diligent in promoting the sacraments the way Jesus Christ gave to us and the way the Church administers and has guided us to receive them. I will continue to denounce any manipulations or innovations done to alter our sacraments.

      Satan cannot harm Jesus Christ, but he can exploit our weaknesses in our humanity through those who seek to change the way the sacraments are administered and received. I am not worried about the teachings of the Church fading, I am concerned for those who are being led away from Her through the intended manipulations of Her sacraments.

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    2. So sad that kiko and minions do this for show! Shanghai-ed unsuspecting rabbis for his dog and pony show! Unthinkable and so inappropriate! What does he want to accomplish for the Catholic Church? And what legacy is he putting up other than to ruin what others have built up over so many centuries? He is in the unsavory league with the Goths and the Huns who pillage and rape what others build - and for what?

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