So what's new! Majority of the websites linking to certain articles written under the NCW have been removed.
Thank you Tim and Chuck. The posting anew of this "lost" document; highlights my argument of two days ago. I was challenging an anonymous comment which was trying to draw parallels between attacks in Europe; using fascism as a blight against dissenters like us; and colonial era evangelizing, in order to drive a wedge between chamorros and non chamorros. We can now clearly see, that indeed nothing happens in a vacuum. We can also identify the origin of these attacks.No wonder they want to cover their tracks. So.... to my anonymous challenger: Am I still a conspiracy theorist?Now we know who and where you are. ..Pax Christum
Why do you think the disappearance of Dr Atienza's post from one site supports conspiracy theory? Dr Atizenza's WEB-site at the University of Guam home page is open and freely available. All posts/ papers/ articles of interest can be found whatever you are looking for.
Feel free to provide the link to the website and the link to the document referenced in this post.
However, we do find it curious that the document was deleted from the site where it was linked from Mr. White's original article so that readers could not link to it. You guys are so funny.
Anon 5:02 pm: I never used the word "conspiracy". This is a case of an academic professional whose sloppiness and arrogance were brought to light. The academic then deleted the embarrassing paper, but not before we were able to save it.The whole purpose of my post was to pry open the lid on the attitudes and arrogance that the Neocatechumenal Way would rather keep secret. There will be more.
Frenchie talked about conspiracy theory.Dr Atienza is a well respected professor, an excellent contributor to academic research of Guam. Chuck, you have no right and no business to call on his name like this. All his publications are available at his home page. You still have to establish that Dr. Atienza is impersonating the Neocatechumenal Way. You also have to establish Chuck, because we doubt it, that you are impersonating somehow the "true Catholic Church". ;)
Well provide the link already. And we don't have to establish anything.
Anon 6:28pm, I'm struggling to understand what you mean by "impersonating." Could you elaborate?
Chuck, you talk about Dr Atienza's fact finding as somehow related to the Neocatechumenal Way. How were you able to establish this relationship between anthropological findings and particular church groups?Dr Atienza is a scholar who enjoys academic freedom in his research. So why do you want to take away his academic freedom, Chuck? You can't.You talk about arrogance while you make arrogance claims about academic research. What is your basis for that? Your judgment against others is no better than other people's judgment against you.Here is an anthropological bonus question for you, dear Chuck: in your opinion how can someone be a good Catholic and believe in the Taotao Mona at the same time?
Dr. Atienza,I am not restricting your academic freedom - I am criticizing your sloppy work and biases.Here is a link to the pertinent piece, which you published on the Xiphias Gladius web site, but recently removed: http://thoughtfulcatholic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Cultural+Factors+and+Suicide+in+Guam.pdfIn it, you claim, among other things:“The popular accepted believe (sic) in Guam is that not (sic) Chamorro will go hell as far (sic) as he or she has family that pray (sic) the rosary for them during the funeral rituals. Even if the decease (sic) person commit (sic) suicide his salvation will not depend on his personal conversion but on the efforts and prayers of the taotao or familia; the extended family.”“Salvation (for the Chamorro) is a matter of living relatives and not of personal decisions or behaviors.”“Today, the Rosary and the devotion to the Virgin Mary plays (sic) a fundamental role in death management since the popular believe (sic) is that Mary has the power to save the souls from hell, what is a (sic) not orthodox thought.”“Chamorros of today believe that those that die wearing the Carmelite Scapular will not go hell and that those who pray the rosary regularly will neither go hell. (sic)”“At the beginning of the mass in the parishes the intentions for the deaths last five minutes reading a long list of people that have passed away. Rosary and intentions assure everlasting life in heaven for the Chamorros.”As far as I can tell, you relied upon only one actual interview of a living Chamorro to draw these conclusions.You also ask how I am able to link your professional work to the Neocatechumenal Way. Perhaps public knowedge of that frightens you. Here’s the link: You are not only an Assistant Professor at UOG, but you are also an Invited Professor at the local seminary’s Blessed Diego Institute. You teach Neocatechumenal seminarians and you are a confirmed member of that movement. Moreover, you share your founder’s antipathy toward archaic religious systems (as seen in the Xiphias Gladius Project Summary). Of course, Kiko calls it “natural religion”, but the terms are synonymous, at least in the way that Rene Girard and Kiko use them. The stated Xiphias Gladius and Girardian claim that Christianity has been “contaminated” by archaic religious systems is one dominant theme of the communication mentioned above.Lastly, while it is a fascinating topic, let's not shuffle off and talk about taotao moanas until we get you to own your own prejudices. And even after you do, I would hesitate to talk about Chamorro belief in those entities until I had interviewed a complete complement of Chamorros about the topic. Not one lady from Merizo.
Chuck, your arrogance is leading you to false conclusions. I am not Dr. Atienza, or if I am, you will never know. I don't know either who you are. But you are welcome to visit professional meetings, make presentation or publish your own article about your views in anthropology. Don't worry, you will see again Dr Atienza's paper in a refereed journal. It will have nothing to do with the position Dr Atienza is holding at the RMS or to the Neocatechumenal Way.The same way as your views have nothing to do with the "true Catholic" view, that doesn't even exist, only in the mind of a few. May your Taotao Mona keep your path straight.
Dear Friend of Dr. Atienza,Wonderful. Hopefully the peer review process will hold him to a very high standard and he'll have interviewed many Chamorros before stating his opinions on what they believe. Of course, he'll have to fix up that grammar a bit too if he chooses to publish it in English.
Dr Atienza or not Dr. Atienza (yeah, I can see you don't want to acknowledge in the affirmative after having your behind handed to you on this blog) In your zeal to be a jerk to Chuck White, you have ended up insulting a whole group of people who you don't know and don't know you. Congratulations on producing yet another crop of rotten fruit. Taotaomona means people of the past. Good luck with your failed papers Dr/not Dr.
I still can't get over how this professor's source about Catholic Chamorro views comes from ONE Merizo woman, but mostly, what I still can't get over is that this pea brain is a professor.
We've shown through numerous posts that the Kikos share several perspectives with the philosopher Rene Girard. One of those is that Christianity has been polluted with archaic religious systems. So Prof. Atienza came to Guam with that conviction. His publications show that he tries to apply Girard's thought (mimetic desire, etc) to just about every problem he attacks. While Girard's concept of mimesis does apply to the suicide issue he was addressing, is assertions about Chamorro prayers for the dead were way off base. You might have heard the saying, "if all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail." That applies very well to Prof. Atienza. At this stage of his academic career he seems to be a one trick pony. Rene Girard everywhere.
If you don't like it, you may write a counter article and publish it in a refereed journal. This is what serious people do. Good luck with that... lol!
If you don't like it, then you can start your own blog and contradict us. This is what serious people do. Good luck with that...lol!
The work in question was not published in refereed journal. It was presented at an Archdiocesan conference on Suicide in 2010. It as an academic hack job, obviously done quickly, with lots of a priori assumptions that denigrated the Chamorro people. In that it revealed Atienza's hidden worldview quite well.
Who says that? ;)
My goodness, that is such a poorly written paper, let alone its spurious claims. I shudder a little that this could pass for academic research!
To anonymous @ 5.02, 6.08, and again @ 6.28.Sorry for not answering earlier, but I actually have a business to run.Obviously you have not read me properly. I was referring to a previous attack against my person, in which my detractor accused me of being a conspiracy theorist.The subject at hand was my rejection of grossly dishonest parallels made on another post with exactly the same kind of far fetched arguments used by this professor. So, dear anonymous, before you fly the handle, try to put things back in their context, get informed, and as my dear grand mother use to say:"turn your tongue several times in your mouth before you start speaking". It most likely will avoid you looking out of depth.Enjoy your weekend