Monday, December 2, 2013

COMMUNITY VS DIOCESE

Got this in a comment. 

I was at the first night of the Novena last night at the Cathedral and I noticed that the Archbishop was missing. A friend of mine is very active with the largest annual feast day celebration (12/08) and I asked if the Archbishop was sick, because he is normally at the Cathedral for each night of the Novena. She mentioned that he cannot on Saturday nights because he has a Neo mass for his community at his house, and that he cannot on Sunday because he hosts the seminarians and missionaries for a pizza party at his house every Sunday.

If this is true, then do you see the problem?  See the rest of the comment here


7 comments:

  1. I intensely dislike the cliquishness and arrogance of the neo-catechumenate movement but I have no problem with the archbishop compromising by spending time at different times with the different groups he ministers to. He DOES try to minister to as many people as he can, neo and non-neo, poor and rich, people without status and people with status and, unlike most people on Guam, people of all races.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Its comments like these above that spread negative views of the NCW. To blame the NCW that their celebrations take precedence over regular Parish/Archdiocesan/Liturgical Celebrations is untrue. I doubt that the Sunday Meetings the Archbishop has with the seminarians/clergy/missionaries is considered a "Pizza Party". Maybe the other movements, prayer groups and ecclesial realities are not being received in high numbers as the NCW, so that may be reason why there is no uproar in opposition to them. Pope Francis recently said that we should "go against the current" get out of our boxes and bring the gospel to the ends of the earth. For many the NCW is something that we are not used to and it brings great misunderstandings if we base our judgments on just a few experiences or even rumors. For me it was a "I wont know til I try it out". Well I tried it out and let me tell you, it goes against every rumor and article that I have read up on against the NCW. Unlike other groups that I have experienced, the NCW has met my needs with consistency. I will not say that the other groups are bad because I still support their missions. Im not going to say that what Tim has to share is a lie, but these are his experiences and it is not fair to draw broad conclusions. Maybe in time and after all is said and done, there will be peace, we will put our judgments down and we will move on. I was never forced into the NCW, I received an invitation so did everyone else in the parish and I responded. It was up to me to answer the call from God.

    ReplyDelete
  3. By not understanding the problem, you have demonstrated the problem. The issue is not what occurs weekly, but ONCE A YEAR. We are speaking here of the diocesan wide activities honoring OUR LADY OF KAMALIN, THE PATRONESS OF GUAM.

    Locally speaking, there is no other more significant series of events than the novena culminating in the procession in her honor. As the reigning prelate of the local church it is unthinkable that the Archbishop would not be in attendance. He wasn't. People noticed.

    By not being present at Guam's most significant religious event, he demonstrated, once again, that his personal neocatechumenal community takes precedence over the archdiocese. In short, his duties as a member of an ncw community are more important to him than his duties as bishop.

    These are not "broad conclusions". This is a fact. The archbishop chooses his community over the diocese and even over honoring Our Lady of Kamalin with the rest of the diocese. That's pretty staggering.

    ReplyDelete
  4. RESPONDING TO:

    "I intensely dislike the cliquishness and arrogance of the neo-catechumenate movement but I have no problem with the archbishop compromising by spending time at different times with the different groups he ministers to. He DOES try to minister to as many people as he can, neo and non-neo, poor and rich, people without status and people with status and, unlike most people on Guam, people of all races."

    The problem is that the Archbishop is a MEMBER of only one of these groups. In fact, he technically does not "minister" to the NCW at all. He is but one "of the brothers".

    But to address this more generally, so that people in the NCW "get it". The THING that most distinguishes your movement from every other group or movement is that YOU HAVE YOUR OWN MASSES. Not just the occasional Mass which some groups have for special occasions, but YOUR OWN WEEKLY SUNDAY MASS apart from the parish.

    This is a visible sign of division. And beyond the fact that it is separate, the NCW chooses to ignore the statute set for it by Rome in the manner of distributing Holy Communion - as I have demonstrated elsewhere and will demonstrate again if I need to - this outright and open disobedience to magisterial authority is not just shocking, but demonstrates the same cancerous disobedience that was at the root of the protestant revolt.

    In so far as the Archbishop participates in and allows this practice which rejects magisterial authority, he forfeits his own, which is why you will see, and are seeing, the people of Guam rise up. It has only just begun.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hi Tim,

    Reading all your posts and the comments being made makes me wonder if the NCW has any senses at all? Now really people, do we actually have to have the NCW to learn about our faith? Do you (NCW) not know how to pick up a bible or a catechism book or any book for that matter and read it and if you have any questions about it then talk to your priests or a friend or better yet...goggle it if you're too embarrassed to ask questions. There is also an electronic device called a radio that provides catholic broadcastings called EWTN (90.9FM the light ...just in case you did not know) and trust me you can learn a lot more about the faith by just listening.

    Oh, what about socializing or fellowship you say? Yes, it's nice to be around other people besides your family that's a bonus. But you know, you can still do that in a regular church ...it's called .."hi, how are you?" eventually it leads to other questions the more you see them. But as typical a people we are..I guess we have to be "forced or coerced" to be together in order to get to know each other. Just my opinion.

    Too many lies floating around just causes more friction and confusion amongst all.

    I think my BIGGEST confusion with the NCW is that they hold a totally different type of mass separate from the regular church (times) and still profess themselves as Catholics.
    When I say "totally different type of mass" I know exactly what kind of mass it is because I was invited to attend the mass and knew the minute it started that it was definitely not catholic for my taste. I admit I have been to a few Protestant type services but it was only to distinguish differences amongst all so that I can better defend my faith. So, from my viewpoint, I considered it "Protestant" like ... If dancing around the altar table seems to me very uncatholic then it must be Protestant and this is just 1 example and my opinion.

    As for the NCW I probably wouldn't have a problem with it if they were just a catechesis like the CCD program or any other faith formation program or an outreach program or group to bring the people back to the faith or back to the church...but once again it seems like it is somewhat a confusion to me ...think about it...NCW claim to be good for the church because they are drawing people back to the church. I've heard this from quite a few people...but... why is it that most of the members of the NCW are the people that ARE ALREADY IN THE CHURCH??? If you want to evangelize and bring the people back to the church...then GO OUT and FIND the people that are NOT IN THE CHURCH already and bring them back.

    Holding a separate mass just causes a great division ...that's how the Calvinists, the Baptists, the Lutherans...etc..all formed....they all wanted to change the church, the bible, the rules in one way or another and eventually they separated themselves. Now do we really want to see how wide the division will get?

    Remember...JESUS is the same yesterday, today and HE will still be the same tomorrow. YOU can FIND JESUS in his home..THE CHURCH..where he has been for thousands of years, unless of course, you want to DESTROY HIS CHURCH then by all means desecrate away!


    Just me a lay person,
    Susan

    ReplyDelete
  6. Continuation:

    NCW why don't you read The Early Church Fathers to better understand your faith! I've heard a lot of Protestant people have picked up that exact book and realized "The Truth about the Church" and have converted and found their "WAY" back to the CATHOLIC FAITH and the CHURCH because as far as I can see ...you are starting to look very Protestant to me.

    Rev. Archbishop Apuron,

    You are the representative of Jesus Christ and the priests are your shepherds and we, the people, are your flock.

    Think long and hard about the choices you have made for this island and where you are leading the church towards. The Protestants on this island are not deaf OR blind and they can see the division amongst the Catholics. You were chosen to lead us, you were chosen to show us how to be faithful to the magisterium of the church. We should be 1 holy catholic and apostolic church but we are not. Think long and hard for when that day comes and you are presented to The Lord may your soul be in the state of grace.

    I urge you to go online and look up Fr. Stephen Scheier ...or you could go on YouTube and type up .. "Priest who went to hell" and you will understand your place in this world. I think all priests should watch the videos as well.

    Just a lay person,
    Susan

    ReplyDelete
  7. Continuation:

    NCW why don't you read The Early Church Fathers to better understand your faith! I've heard a lot of Protestant people have picked up that exact book and realized "The Truth about the Church" and have converted and found their "WAY" back to the CATHOLIC FAITH and the CHURCH because as far as I can see ...you are starting to look very Protestant to me.

    Rev. Archbishop Apuron,

    You are the representative of Jesus Christ and the priests are your shepherds and we, the people, are your flock.

    Think long and hard about the choices you have made for this island and where you are leading the church towards. The Protestants on this island are not deaf OR blind and they can see the division amongst the Catholics. You were chosen to lead us, you were chosen to show us how to be faithful to the magisterium of the church. We should be 1 holy catholic and apostolic church but we are not. Think long and hard for when that day comes and you are presented to The Lord may your soul be in the state of grace.

    I urge you to go online and look up Fr. Stephen Scheier ...or you could go on YouTube and type up .. "Priest who went to hell" and you will understand your place in this world. I think all priests should watch the videos as well.

    Just a lay person,
    Susan

    ReplyDelete