Sunday, December 22, 2013


Mr. GET-TO-IT challenged me to publish his lengthy comment. Of course he didn't need to challenge me at all. The comments are open and are immediately published upon submission. But to make sure he knew I published his comment I also published it as a post. One person has already replied at length, but I wanted to take the time to address his questions, since he raises some good ones.

Tim - Then let's get to it. If you know something then stop the speculation and come out with it, otherwise stop stringing us alone like somebodies fools. I am in the Neo and I have seen all that you have written. Although I don't necessarily agree with you, you at least lay out your facts so people can judge. But is it so irresponsible to string this out and allow all kinds of other neer do wells to comment on things they know absolutely nothing about.

I am not sure what it is that I am stringing out. I have been fairly consistent from the beginning that the central issue as regards the NCW is the decision by its leadership not to comply with Rome in the manner of distributing Holy Communion.  In fact GET-TO-IT's comment is made on the post THE CENTRAL ISSUE where I thoroughly clarify what the central issue is and after the post AND YOU WONDER WHY PEOPLE ARE MAD where I thoroughly document this decision not to comply. 

If I've strung anything out, it was the evidence, namely the comments of the Archbishop on KOLG and the letter from the priest at RMS. I really didn't want to have to go there if you know what I mean. The facts should have stood by themselves. The NCW did not comply with the Arinze directive and still does not comply with its own statute. However, the NCW detractors continued to challenge my claims and impugn my person and credibility. I warned them several times that they would not like the evidence if I had to produce it. But that didn't stop them. So I produced it. And I have more to produce. 

But I shouldn't have to produce it. The main evidence is how the sacred species will be distributed and consumed at their next "Eucharist." It will not be in accord with the statute which requires them to conform the distribution of Holy Communion to the liturgical books, which means, other than remaining standing in their place they are to receive the sacred species and consume it immediately. 

However, if my GET-TO-IT detractors want more evidence, or more of the backstory as to why your leadership chose to defy Rome, feel free to ask. I will provide. 

Over all on Guam, the Neocatechumenal Way does more than any other group on island. When the Archbishop asks for help, who responds to his request? The communities respond. When he needs a priest he can rely on, who does he call, a priest trained in the Way. They are the pastors of the future, they are the way the Church on Guam will recover. The good we do far exceeds any bad that people accuse us of. All this infighting must STOP!

One wonders about the basis for this claim. The NCW "does more than any other group on island"? The pastors "trained in the Way...are the pastors of the future?" Those are fighting words Mr. GET-TO-IT, fighting words that are ironically followed by your demand that "all this infighting must STOP!" I don't think I need to add anything here. 

Rome is certainly aware of the way in which we celebrate the Eucharist, and they still allow it to this day. If they say change, we will change. 

Yes, they are aware. And they did tell you to change. They told you to change in 2005 and in 2008 (Statute), and again in January of 2012. You did not change. Rome doesn't have a police force. They depend on the bishop to see to it that norms and statutes, especially in liturgical matters, are complied with. The bishop is the chief enforcer. Do you see the problem?  And I find your next statement particularly illuminating: 

"What does that tell you Tim? There is an understanding that you and I are not aware of." 

Yes, this would comport with what the priest from RMS told me, that there was private agreement between Cardinal Rylko and Kiko to continue status quo. Even though this was clear evidence that the 2005 CDW directive was never complied with, at least it had the feel of compliance once the statutes were approved. However, as we all know, the statutes were approved, but not to Kiko's liking, so you continued status quo beyond the bounds of your statute. 

There is also the fact that you think some secret decision that "you and I are not aware of" is okay. This is antithetical to Catholicism. In matters of the faith, especially in the celebration of the Eucharist, there are NO secrets, there is no private knowledge or permissions. That's called gnosticism. That you think some secret decision "up the chain" is okay is further evidence that the NCW is NOT okay. However, you cannot really be blamed for this since your leaders do the same. As noted in a previous post, I was told by the priest from RMS: "there are no documents to show you at this point.  All our instruction have been oral, but we are satisfied with that.  We have no choice." Wow! That's scary stuff. No choice!

Some body actually suggested that I go to confession because I go to Eucharist with my community. That is over the top to suggest that it is sinful to receive Christ in the way we do. If there is a division here on Guam, isn't it just possible the division is caused by those not in the Way, spawned by jealousy? But they are not willing to put in the hours and hard work we do.

Again with the "hard work", but aside from that, the suggestion to go to confession was not about your going "to Eucharist with your community", but your complicity with the disobedience of your leaders in the manner of receiving holy communion. But again, you can hardly be blamed, especially when the Archbishop himself is doing it that way. 

The Archbishop goes to all the fiestas possible, more than any Archbishop in the world, I would guess. He visits all catholic schools, every year. By brother recently finished a Cursillo course and the Archbishop was there for the graduation. And guess what, they sing a lot to. He supports all people fairly as is his job. 

I'm not exactly sure that other places in the world have fiestas, however, the job of bishop does come with a job description and being present for major parish and organizational events is not out of the ordinary for any bishop. But if you want to make a big deal out of it, go ahead (We won't mention the amount of $ he receives for his appearances nor the fact that fiesta Masses have been moved to earlier in the day so he won't miss "Eucharist" with HIS community. It's nice though that the Archbishop showed up for a Cursillo event given his low opinion of the movement:

"...the Cursillos, it amazes me when they have the Cursillo, a weekend for example, how fired they are. But then immediately after that weekend they fizzle out in the community and you’re know everybody wants to convert the world." (KOLG, January 2006)

Don't get mad at him or us just because the Neocatechumenal Way is what fires the flame within us.Blessed Pope John Paul II and even Benedict have called for the world to help bring Jesus to China. Kiko wants to do his part by sending 10,000 priests to storm that heathen nation. If there are a few problems, these can certainly be offset with all the good that has come from us, and our commitment to supporting the missionary reach of the Church.

Mad? We're not mad? We are just wondering who you are and who you follow. In the NCW we see a church hierarchy turned on its head and Rome being trumped by Kiko. 

You have planted a seed of suspicion in your comment to Anonymous/Ryan. I think it is a weed that will not grow straight.
Prove me wrong if you can, but until then stop baiting the trap for the unknowing to wander into and make terrible claims about. Most of it just isn't true, or taken completely out of context.

Ah, Mr. GET-TO-IT, how you greatly underestimate the intelligence of this readership, assuming they are nothing more than anti-neo automatons. Well you're wrong. There are lots of smart people reading and commenting on this blog, and there are lots of very smart people who are reading this blog who are not commenting, just reading, watching...and waiting. You will hear from them soon, I'm sure. 

I saw what Zoltan said and wonder if it is true about you publishing only what you want to hear. Well, lets see if you are as balanced as you say you are. Publish this, and lets see who else in a community agrees with me?

Of course, he published this himself when he pressed "Publish". 


  1. Stop lying Tim. It is not true that your only concern is the contemplated consumption of the Eucharistic Host in the Way, which is an approved practice witnessed by Popes who participated in Eucharistic Celebrations of the Neocatechumenal Way (Paul 6th, John Paul 2nd, Benedict 16th). You actually said this a couple weeks ago:

    "Difference No 3
    The Neocatechumenal Way has a separate weekday celebration of the Liturgy of the Word. This is allowed in the approved Statute (Art. 11), but nevertheless it is a "difference", since for the other faithful, a separate celebration of the Word is not permitted:

    In the celebration of Mass, the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist are intimately connected to one another, and form one single act of worship. For this reason it is not licit to separate one of these parts from the other and celebrate them at different times or places. (Redemptionis Sacramentum, 60.)"

    Then you banned my response on December 6th that tried to correct your blunder. I had to publish it separately:

    "Ad 3.
    This is a blunder. Check your sources, please. The Way has its Bible studies once a week, each community its own, which is called Celebration of the Word. It has no connection to the weekly mass or Eucharistic Celebration."

    That is your level of knowledge about the Way, Tim. Everyone who has ever genuinely interested in our Bible study program, called Celebration of the Word, would know that much, but you don't. You still spread your superstitions without ever repudiating any of your false claims. The less you find out about the Way, the more you attack with unbelievably desperate arrogance. You must know your reasons, man,

    But the fact is that you live in a blessed ignorance about the Way. Still you act like a jungle warrior protecting some last bastion of faith in your own mind. It would be time for you to stop your uninformed arrogance and acknowledge some truth.

  2. Psychological underpinnings in the Neocatechumenate community
    Report by Professor Alberto Picano
    Psychiatrist at San Camillo Hospital in Rome

    I would like to thank you for inviting me here, even if it's about something not so pleasant. This is about something that has created many bitter and painful divisions and has presented the problem of integrating many brothers and sisters. The problem, in fact, doesn't lie in Kiko and Carmen, but in the many, many people who hold a sincere belief and are unaware of the problematic issues. Anyhow, the problem should be confronted with love; we have to make an effort to love.

    I have opened my life to the service of God (even my psychiatric duties), even though around me, Christianity is considered to be a heresy. I have always obtained extraordinary results because I have also tried to help others with grace. I support the Pope, I believe in the Catholic Church, I've been a volunteer, and I'm involved in a missionary association.

    For twenty years, my mother has been a member of the Neocatechumenal Way, but my father didn't become a member. For this reason they were totally separated up until his death. I suffered tremendously and I have found it impossible to accept many of the things that have happened because they were things that go against my Faith. Another example, I was thrown out of the house even though I was a doctor and a successful person. I had been told by a catechist and by a psychiatrist in the Movement these very words: "We have bound your mother to obey and we have ordered her to throw you out of the house." A cloud of pain came down upon me and I left in grief. This allowed me to reflect on the things underlying this movement. The Lord has allowed this and now he has sent me many patients who are Neocatechumenate; with me they feel accepted and understood because I'm very familiar with the situation.

    1. Breakup of the Family

      The first problem is the separation of the family. If there is one person, for example, a spouse who is a Neocatechumen and the other isn't, this becomes irreconcilable because the sociological, grassroots structure for the Neocatechumenate is the community and not the family.

      The family isn't a human institution. It's something sacred and is recognized to have been in the life of Jesus - even He was someone who needed family. It's an observable fact! Jesus was of the family even while He still belonged to the life of the Father (see the fifth joyful mystery where happiness didn't come so much from finding his Son [in the temple], as much as it did from having recognized the duplicity of nature. That is, the Son belonged to God the Father before he belonged to his parents). But this is always true: God was the one who wanted the family structure. Therefore, the family's existence has the right to come before the community structure.

      Now in the community there is a situation of absolute obedience to the catechists (this was described before. Their manner is prophetic since it's inspired by God). A different definition of roles exists. Single families don't exist anymore, instead, a large family gathers all the members from various families and then within this big family the various roles of parents and chidren are defined. This is very similar to what occurs in the Jewish kibbutz. Here, because of the exigencies of this way of life - the needs for protection and for work to be done, children are the children of all the parents and all the parents are parents to all the children. There are many analogies between this pedagogic system and the family structure of the Neocatechumenate community where authority is vested in the catechist and not in the father.

      This family structure in the community, however, brings with it a whole host of bigger problems. There are pathologies which crop up within the community. It can be proven that the authority figure of the catechist is nothing other than the manifestation of the desire for supremacy and control. These desires are manifested in a structure which gives greater doctrinal competence and jurisdiction to certain people who are then able to wield their power.

      When competition breaks out between a man and a woman in this system, paradoxical situations result. You can find Neocatechumenal couples (man-woman) who in reality are the fathers-parents of the communal family. An emotional relationship can take on sexual connotations (not in the sense of there being any physical relations), but in the sense that the two become the father and mother of a large extended family.

      Now, inside the "regular" family there are rules and arrangements which are quite well-defined. They serve to protect and establish the limits of everybody's role in the family. Incest, for example, is a behavioural marker that serves to define the reciprocal roles of parents-children and brothers-sisters. When an extended family, like that of the community, lacks this framework, there are no longer any sexual restrictions. There then can be pathological relationships between siblings in the community or altered relationships between parents and children. This is why God created the family structure.

      Marital fidelity is necessary in order to have a couple that's stable and able to give precise bearings. When there's no longer a stable relationship within emotional relationships, there are no longer any sexual boundaries and "impure" relationships can form which in turn create altered impulses. This is where the community becomes tremendously dysfunctional.


    2. For example, a woman revealed that her role had been the "lover" of the male-leader. She had fought against it because in reality she sexually desired him and despised her husband. She behaved almost to the point of hiding behind that leader in the community so as to not fail in carrying out her responsibilities. This woman had raised four of her seven children to be taught by this authoritative catechist rather than by her husband.

  3. The All-Ecompassing Institution

    The community becomes a total institution because it must resolve all the problems of the people who belong and maintain that no solution which lies outside the community is possible.

    I have a thirty-year-old man in therapy whose parents belong to the community. He came to me after he had been shut up in the house for four years. There, he had kept himself busy with the sole task of taking care of a bonsai. I thought he might have been schizophrenic, but instead, he was just a typical, unfulfilled adult whose only problems were sexual. So these were the reasons why he kept to himself.

    His parents never talked to him about it, but they did bring him to the community hoping that he would talk with the catechists. Here lies another mechanism. Since there aren't any individual parents, but rather a whole collective of parents, this seemed to guarantee that son would be offered the best advice.

    However, this man wouldn't talk to anyone if he or she wasn't one of his real parents. Therefore, he progressively became more and more reserved. The parents told him that the only people who were trustworthy enough were the people in the community and that's why they had tried to bring him into the community. But he didn't feel accepted because he was living with the pain of feeling guilty about his sexual problem (and that was part of it). All these people had resolved their problems in such a detached way. That made him feel like an outsider to them. This is what brought on his sense of alienation.

    Anything outside the community was forbidden because that would have meant to betray his parents and betraying them was impossible for him because he was in great need of them. Therefore, the only thing left to do was to stay cooped up in the house.

    After eight months of therapy he began to have confidence in himself again and to start acting autonomously. Without my knowing it, his parents were giving him sedatives while I was prescribing antidepressants. I said it was alright for him to go to the community, but I taught him that this was not the only recourse. I also taught him that he was the one who let himself feel alien to that world. In his mind it had been impossible to think that he could live with a burden like his inside such an institution that by definition was good.

    It's necessary to tell these people that there's a different world outside the community where it's possible to live without feeling wrong or guilty.

    If I'm not of the "salt", [that is, one of the "wise"], and I have only been "salted" [that is, one of the "knowing"], then my life has been classified like in sports - to Division II level. It's unacceptable that my child would live in a situation like that.

    1. The Kind of People who Belong

      It's necessary to ask ourselves why this movement exists and why it has been so successful. We need to find who we can speak to, what we can say, and what language we can use because it's also important to establish a dialogue with these marginalized people since they don't have any other hope in their lives.

      Unfortunately, deep-down these people feel unfulfilled or like they're failures. The parishes don't have a pastoral for the failures, for the marginalized, for those who have made mistakes. Now, the Neocatechumenate are focusing on people who have no one who listens to them. These people are fully integrated straight-away in the community and brought to the same level as the others.

      We, however, make the same mistake as the brother of the prodigal son. We are all brothers and sisters so we have to reunite the brother who has done wrong, to forgive him for what he has done as if it hadn't ever been done. The Neocatechumenate welcome people in this way and nothing is required of them. Just like all communities, it is a place - which is a factor in psychological and spiritual rehabilitation. "Ordeals bring patience, patience brings tested virtue, tested virtue brings hope and this will not disappoint."

      Ordeals (like those experienced by people who have done wrong or who are outside the church) create patience and with it the ability to endure (the Way doesn't accept this because they say this ability to go on doesn't come from man). Our impetus doesn't come from labeling someone who has made a mistake and saying, "he's wrong!" This labeling mechanism is arbitrary. Instead, we have to feel our guilt and responsibility for our mistakes in front of God. This Movement exists because it succeeds in doing that. We need to learn to never ever label and to offer complete forgiveness - a pardon which gives back "the white robe" (which the confessor gives, not us), the "ring for his finger" (power), and "sandals for his feet" (that is, to return to life with dignity).

      We tend to label people: "they're crazy", "she's a prostitute", "his father's a drunk", "she's a Neocatechumen!" We need to welcome and integrate these people. Unfortunately, these people are adults and they often don't find anyone in the parish who will listen to them and help them solve the problems in their relationships because usually more attention is paid to youngsters or the elderly. And usually, the ones who are making most of the mistakes are adults or young-adults. Instead, the Neocatechumenate are welcoming and they offer help. Even the Pope would be in favour of a way to integrate these brothers and sisters. The Church has no need for a doctrinal war. We need to establish many individual, human relationships, and teach them forgiveness.

    2. [After a short pause, some people from the audience asked the following questions:]

      Q. What are some recurring pathologies evident in people who have been a part of this movement?

      A. All of these people demonstrate a weak personality, a feeling of failure, and an incapacity to face their own mistakes. They need to lock themselves up in a rigid system privy of communication, because otherwise, they would not be able to accept their own mistakes. It's the most common pathology to all people who confine themselves to communities, sects, dosed systems, etc... they don't accept their own limitations.

      Q. What illnesses does it bring about?

      A. The problem is the individual removes all responsibility from him or herself; he loses his freedom, he has no more power of discernment, he has no more will power, and he is no longer conscious of his own errors. This results in a weakened individual who has no morale, no purpose, no hope, and no capacity to love. This person can take on a whole variety of illnesses.

      Q. Are they pushed to suicide or severe depression?

      A. No! I haven't seen this in my own practice nor do I have any statistics on this. Any closed system which forbids any connections with the outside world is a system which tends toward the pathological and does not help an individual's development. There are many cases like this. Certainly, the fact that there are no more precise, emotional points of reference, the fact that a child doesn't know who his own father is anymore, that a husband doesn't have a special relationship with his wife, but instead has an impartial relationship with a system rather than with another human being... these are all conditions that aren't beneficial to anyone's mental health. Rather, they bring about confusion.

      From the spiritual point of view, sin is an individual failure. From a psychological point of view, it is a psychological malfunction. The people who end up entering these Movements are people who don't live parochial spirituality. People who have a strong faith don't join the Neocatechumenal movement.

      I repeat my plea to pray for our change of heart and for forgiveness, because only by forgiving them can we help the Church grow. Any show of anger, rancour, or bitterness would be following in the same direction as the Neocatechumanate - the direction of self-righteousness and division. With our prayers we will be able to help them see true grace, true salvation, and true love. But we will do it only through forgiveness.

    3. All above information can be found in the following link:

      Psychological underpinnings in the Neocatechumenal Way. Report ...

    4. And that my friends is "the crux of the matter". So let's all pray for ALL our NEO brothers and sisters for The Lord knows...they need our prayers!

    5. Good Job Maria Rose.
      Without knowing absolutely anything about the Neocatechumenal Way, you just copy and paste something from the web.
      Thank you for persecuting us, it is an honor for us to look more like Jesus Christ.

    6. I know enough. My own mother disliked me because I questioned. Questioning was out of the question. Yes, the NCW does. cause friction within the family realm.

  4. How dare you! Disagreement and concern is not persecution. Look it up. Do not cheapen that word! There are people experiencing true life threatening persecution and you cry foul because you feel slighted? For shame!

  5. Yes Dear Nobody...

    Isn't the web such a wonderful thing? I just posted what a psychiatrist (who has first hand experience and also happens to have credentials) from Rome had written. I thought maybe, just maybe, SOME people in the way may be experiencing what he wrote about. I'm not persecuting...I'm just stating the obvious.

    I'm so glad you took time out to read up on it....hopefully a switch was flipped and a light bulb was turned on.

  6. Dear Maria Rose,
    of these writings you can find thousands not only against the Neocatechumenal Way but also against the Catholic Church. So I advise you to be careful on what you are fighting for, not to defend the NCW, but for yourself. Because if the Way comes from man, then congratulations...but if the Way comes from God...I agree the Way is not for everybody, it is true...but how many young people came out of drugs thanks to many marriages were saved through the Way...and if God is using this reality to save people...

    1. What is the use of all the "good" that is professed, when there is greater damage left behind in the wake of "harvesting" these so called "fruits." It is dishonest to refuse to acknowledge the many families that have been unnecessarily broken and divided because of forceful and intimidating behavior of the NCW leadership on these weak and vulnerable souls. I have witnessed it in my own family and continue to gather similar stories around this island. Families should be more holy and sacred than any single "community."

      If we had an impartial Archbishop, solutions and reconciliation could be served. Rather, there is great bias in the Chancery with the Archbishop so personally invested in the Neo; to deny the existence of this damaging preference, one would have to suspend reality or be drowning in denial.

      What is it that prevents Archbishop Apuron from taking a step back to assess the reality that is happening around him? Why can't Archbishop Apuron realize that there is a great number of non-neo in his flock that are hurting and are left feeling abandoned? Is objectivity forsaken as well?

  7. I have seen many a prodigal son (or daughter for that matter) come back to the faith with new or renewed devotion to the Lord and their vocation in life through the NCW (I have seen this in many other groups/movements as well). I know members of the NCW who are generous, humble & faithful…sweethearts even…..but like any group, there are radicals (and I have met them as well). As truthful as the previous comments may be about the help the NCW provides……..Tim’s point is on obedience.

    My pastor once shared the Latin root word of obedience - obedire (to "obey”, to “serve”…but more literally to "listen to.” [“ob-“ = to & “audire”= listen]

    You could call me the neutral observer, but I’m beginning to think that radicals are hijacking this movement and are causing scandal through disobedience.

  8. Theres a long list of NCW contacts for each Parish located on the Archdiocese website. Why doesnt anyone call these people to get some info? Instead we continue to draw our opinions from online articles. Tim has a issue with the distribution of communion, and no one has denied that this is happening. So where are we going? Why do people continue to attack the NCW from every angle?
    This is just crazy!
    I dont know how many times, an NCW member comes in here to defend the criticisms, and Tim(and others) declare that we should stick to the real issue.
    So what is the real Issue? Yes, Tim has repeatedly announced the real issue but he alone decides who needs the reminder or not.
    A reader once stated that most of this so called division is being caused by those who oppose the NCW.
    This blog is evidence of this. I do not recall any member or those in favor of the NCW, resorting to negative comments. I mean comments that are very degrading and senseless. This is just crazy!
    "Since Im a member of the NCW, this blog has now made me understand that I am a person who is of low intellect(dumb), I have trouble reading simple english, I am brainwashed, I cannot think for myself, I am a protestant, I am a chronic liar, I dont know how to invest my finances, I have a Pope other than Pope Francis, I will not end up in Heaven after this life."

    We question the NCW for holding the Eucharist in their hands for a moment. Maybe everyone should do this the next time they receive the Eucharist at Mass. We should all look and contemplate what we are holding and how the Eucharist will change our lives.

    While Tim says that this blog is allowing people to express their hurt and feelings about our Archdiocese. It surely goes beyond that.

    If some members of the NCW feel that there is no life beyond/outside the community, who has created this mentality? Look at what is happening on this blog. I for one would want to be surrounded by people who are witnesses to the real love of Christ. People who are a sign of Love and Unity.

    Yes Tim remind me again to stick to the issue.

    1. So, if members in your household are nit members then they do not witness the real love of Christ and ergo you don't want to be surrounded by them? Do you see your non member family as a sign of Love and unity? If you were told that you had to give up everything and go as a lay missionary to go to a heathen country you would? If so, then volunteer.

    2. As for my family, I am the only one in the NCW. Is there Love & Unity in my family? Yes. me being in the NCW has not changed their love towards me, they have come no where close to the hurtful words that are shared on this blog. To be clear, I meant that those who come in here and bash the NCW members really give more credit to those of the NCW that feel there is no love outside of the community. Hope you understand this.
      There is alot of bashing coming from those not in the NCW and if this is a taste of life outside of a community, who would want to venture out? I wouldnt.
      As far as missionary, you would indeed have to volunteer to do this. Through discernment you will find if this vocation is for you. No one should be forced into a vocation. If you are referring to the NCW as forcing people to go. That is not the case. You should ask any missionary that is on Guam if they were forced into the mission. Giving up everything is just part of the vocation. Almost all religious vocations require that you give everything to go. The disciples set the examples for us. With that there are no limits as to where Christ can take you, He send you to the ends of the earth.

    3. Bashing? The NCW started the bashing. every time they stand up at a Mass and tell us that we are lost! We who come to church every Sunday (some every day!), We who do our best to practice our faith and put our trust in Jesus Christ! We who believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist! We are lost? We are unrepentant sinners? We who unwillingly have to put up with your rantings at Mass where we come to be fed?
      Who's bashing who?!?...

  9. Dear Tim,

    Please save the church by setting up an appointment with the Archbishop to set the record straight. Reconcile your differences and lets move on.

    Your blog is serving no purpose. If you have things of your own to reveal about the NCW then just do it. Dont prolong the debut. Dont give us sneak trailers to your so called finale of secrets. The church may be in crisis but if you think youre helping, I differ. The back and forth dialogue on this blog is not helping.
    I am a member of the NCW, I am not a radical member. I will not stand here and say that the NCW is the only way. I will be the first to say that I have been helped spiritually by many other groups and each has helped me in different ways.
    If as you say this has nothing to do with the NCW in general and the central issue is with their neglect to conform to the norms of the liturgy, then lets focus on that alone. The reality is that this problem needs to be fixed but everyone in here isnt in a position to make this change or come to a solution.
    I think we have heard enough from those defending the NCW and those opposing it. SAVE THE CHURCH and turn off this "reply" option.
    Its either you dont want to deal with the Archbishop or it could be the reverse.
    The facts to this day are that you started this blog, A Cardinal has written you to encourage you to discontinue for sure reasons, youve chosen other wise.

    As youve mentioned there are many people reading this blog. It is also possible that many clergy are reading this blog also. I ask them to pray for an end to all of this.

    Peace of the Child Jesus be with you always!

    1. Your sentiment is understandable, but its really not about Tim. The Archbishop knows what is troubling the diocese. He should be the first to reach out to all.
      There are many on this island who would like to be in this "meeting" as Tim alone does not represent each and every real experience. I think Tim's forum provided an outlet for those who otherwise could not find a safe place on Guam to be frank about the NCW. We have seen what happens to those clergy who do.
      This is not about Tim. This blog did not create the issue. The issue created this blog.

    2. As others have said. This has nothing to do with me. More so, it has to do with you and the Archbishop. He is you leader. He has chosen to follow Kiko, not Rome. And you have chosen to follow him. This is between you and him. It only involved the rest of us when the Archbishop decided to strong arm us into accepting the neo by destroying pastors and priests who do his will. Have a nice meeting. The Archbishop owes you an explanation.

    3. Tim, your issue is the way you were socialized into Catholic activism. You had witnessed some indecent act in your parish, committed by the priest. Then you told the story to a bishop who did not heed. This was very unfortunate. Also, you learned to blame the bishop and Church authorities from the beginning. This is what you had reported:

      "My father and I went to the chancery in Los Angeles in 1978 to seek help with a situation in our parish in which a pastor was not only involved in a homosexual relationship, but was supporting his lover with church funds. We were told to "get out"."

      We all understand the situation and see how vulnerable you have become considering Church affairs and consecrated leaders. We pray for you, dear Tim, because you do have an issue here.

      You suspect each and every new thing, itinerary and person in the Church that do not follow your pre-set expectations 100%. You even criticized Pope Francis when he said it might be too much talk and focus on abortions in the Church. You took this personal and once you take something personal you cannot let go of. You do have an issue, Tim, when you find yourself in the same corner with atavistic crusaders who despise Vatican II and have no concept whatsoever of any kinds of Church renewal. You baseline issues truly should be mitigated in order for you to accept changes in the Church, reform minded bishops and archbishops as the legitimate leaders of the Church.

    4. Everything you put forth does not lessen the situation with the neo, nor does it relieve the Archbishop of responsibility for what is happening. You can cover all the mirrors in your house, it will not render you invisible.

    5. Here are some more details from Tim himself. It is written in his own blog, the Junglewatch, as an explanation of his attitude and aversion against Cardinals and Archbishops:

      "We went to Rome with Cardinal Manning's party, the Cardinal of Los Angles. He and my pastor had been classmates at St. Patrick's in Menlo Park. Because they had been classmates, I got to be in the inner party. I even played the piano while Cardinal Manning sang Irish tunes at a dinner in a converted catacomb.

      But I knew something was wrong. The pastor kept touching me in ways that made me uncomfortable. Not sexual, but he would hold on a little too long, a little too close. I had no idea what was going on. But my instincts made me pull away. And now that I had heard what I heard, I knew why I had felt what I did."

      This is from Tim Rohr's blog (read his first story):

      As it turned out, in addition to living free at the parish owned house and having sex with the pastor, the man in the next room with the pastor was also helping himself to parish funds. I had the evidence. I told my dad. We went to the chancery office in downtown Los Angeles. We thought the Archbishop should know. We were told to go away.

    6. "As it turned out, in addition to living free at the parish owned house and having sex with the pastor, the man in the next room with the pastor was also helping himself to parish funds. I had the evidence. I told my dad. We went to the chancery office in downtown Los Angeles. We thought the Archbishop should know. We were told to go away.

      Twenty years later, the Los Angeles Archdiocese had to cough up half a billion dollars of our money, half a billion dollars to pay not just for the damages done to the young men and boys priests like my pastor had molested, but paying for all the people they had silenced, the people they sent away, the people they wouldn't listen to. The bishop had spoken. "Go away". We obeyed. Children suffered. Billions were lost."

      This is from Tim Rohr's blog (read his first story):

    7. . . . and the neo problem still exists.

    8. Tim calls for disobedience against the Archbishop because of his own painful past experiences about some abuses in his childhood parish. This is his attitude of anger, stemming from bias and rejection. I understand him because of his unfortunate encounter with corrupt clergy. Still, it is him who needs healing now. Whatever pains are in his heart from the past, he cannot generalize his accusations and go against everything sacred, because that is morally wrong. I'll pray for peace in his heart toward the Church.

    9. FYI Anonymous December 23, 2013 at 2:14 AM:

      My friends and I called the chancery many times in July because we wanted to see the archbishop and beg him to put Fr. Paul back in Santa Barbara. We were told he was very busy. So in August we went up to the chancery because we thought we might be able to see him. But we were told again that he was very busy. We felt like he really doesn't care for us. Maybe he doesn't want to see Tim Rohr because Tim Rohr will try and make him see how he's hurting us just because we're not neos. I don't think the archbishop cares about us.

      I think this blog is good because we're finding out lots of things. Like the archbishop is too busy to see us but he always has pizza with neo seminarians. Why did he not want to see people from Santa Barbara? Because we're not neos?

      People like you and Zoltan don't like Tim because he is giving us a chance to find out that we're not the only ones who the archbishop is hurting. Every time the neos come to church during the mass they make it sound like they're the only ones who know Jesus. Some even say that Jesus is coming to the church on Monday. I thought Jesus came to us during the mass. I thought Jesus lives in the tabernacle. I don't understand that kind of talk about Jesus coming on Monday. I don't like to hear all your problems when you come to our church during mass. If the neo helps you with your problems then good for you. But please stop bothering us. And leave us alone.

    10. "But please stop bothering us. And leave us alone."

      Im not sure in what way are we bothering you? You chose to come onto this blog, you've now chosen to take part In the dialogue. This was all on your call.

      It may be so that the NCW does come to the Mass to invite. Its an invitation, not a court summons. Just because the NCW is the only group that does inviting in this manner does not make it exclusively for them. Did you ever come back on Monday expecting to find Jesus and instead you were told that in fact Jesus dwells inside of you, He loves you? See, you already had your guards up, and never gave it a chance.

      "Why did he not want to see people from Santa Barbara? Because we're not neos?"
      I don't blame you for arising to that speculation because that was forced onto you by this blog. When we are not satisfied with the answers given to us, we begin to draw our own speculations.

      The connection that Fr. Paul has with his parishioners in Sta. Barbara became too close, that in anyway that he would have to leave the parish, it would not have been received well. In a Diocese were there are sufficient amounts of clergy, the length of stay for the pastor would be minimal so not as to create a "personal" relationship with your priest. So the re-assignment of the priest will not be taken heavily and parish life would continue uninterrupted. Sadly, the Sta. Barbara case involved the removal of the pastor because of disobedience. Fr. Paul opposes it claims it is unjustly so the case has gone to Rome. We should all pray for some resolve soon.

  10. This is not about Tim Rohr. This is about the NCW trying to take over the Catholic Church on Guam. Soon after I arrived on Guam eight years ago, I first heard people at work complaining about the Neos and the archbishop. I had no idea who or what the Neos were. In fact, even after a Neo came to our parish to inform us during Mass that we (the congregants in the pews) were part of part of a spiritually dry church, I still didn't know who the Neos were. I was upset with the speaker and the priest who asked him to speak; but I had no idea that he and the priest were Neos. I only learned that later. So, our concerns with the NCW have nothing to do with Tim or any pre-conceived notion of who or what the Neos are. They are based upon our experience. If the Neos want to practice communion in a way that does not comport with the liturgical norms of the Church, that's their decision. I think it is unfortunate, but I nevertheless accept that as their decision. I just ask that the NCW not be allowed to proselytize at our Masses and that the Church provide us with a bishop who believes in the regular Catholic Church, not one who wants to replace the regular Catholic Church with the NCW. That's all. Does anyone (neo or regular RCC) think that is an unfair request?

    1. I agree that this is not about Mr. Rohr, or about his life, background, personality, values, or motives. It is about the message and only the message that we convey. I agree with your message regardless of who you are, and I agree that your request is fair.

  11. I am not a Neo but I disagree with you. The problem cannot be swept under the rug. We cannot say hey, take your flock and build your own church. Whatever the Archbishop does in the end he will be accountable to God just like the rest of us will be.

  12. The archbishop of Guam is well aware that he has covered up abuse in the archdiocese. He had hoped that by bringing in the NCW he could conceal the real situation in his archdiocese. Why else would tony Apuron , who for years supported culture, allow this foreign group to take over the local church. It was to conceal the sexual abuse issues on Guam.

  13. BiBA Chamorro! We need to rise and take responsibility for our church. Our archbishop has lost his capacity to lead this archdiocese . He has sold its soul to the NCW to enrich himself with wealth. He is just another bishop of Bling when you study him. Archbishop needs a period of prayer and reflection in a monastery to really see how he has damaged so many people in his life, and now bringing grave disunity to the local church.

    1. Let us sing our local religious songs, pray our rosary, say our novenas in OUR OWN LANGUAGE. We do not need to keep proclaiming our belief by continually singing "JERUSALEM ". If you are to give your money away, donate it to the Christian cause in Jerusalem. Help them rebuild their churches, their schools, and whatever is needed to continue the spread of Christianity there. Only about 2% are Christians. Numbers continue to dwindle and some have gone into hiding. If this continues, we will no longer have a HOLY LAND if CHRISTIANITY disappears there.

  14. The archbishop needs to make a reflection of his life. He needs to visit every priest he has damaged by his word or action. He needs to,stop destroying priests, , he needs to amend immediately his sins of the past years, he needs to acknowledge the mistakes he made to those he has hurt and caused so much pain in life. If he would just just show some humility and reach out to us,it would help. But each day he and his minions,just make it worse.