Monday, December 23, 2013

FROM AN EX-NEOCAT IN REPLY TO ANONYMOUS

The following is a guest post.

This is in reply to the Anonymous who responded to Susan and who ended her letter with “Peace!”, and to anyone else who is wondering why Archbishop Apuron (and the NCW—the Neo) has caused a massive fracture in the unity of the Church In Guam.  

I prefer to remain anonymous mainly because, if history is any guide, the archbishop and his lieutenants at the Chancery may retaliate with a “painful and arduous” experience against me or those close and dear to me. But Mr. Rohr knows my identity and can corroborate my credentials, and if I was ever needed to step up in defense of the Truth, I shall. 

First, let me say that I am one of those ex-Neo and so I have first-hand and intimate knowledge of the workings of the Neo. This is not hearsay.  Having said that, I can state that all the things that have been posted by Mr. Rohr and all the comments in response are accurate and truthful. I do note some embellishments and exaggerations in some of the comments, but they do not detract or make the facts any less truthful. The criticisms are valid.

I do agree that the sarcasms are not warranted but they are understandable considering the nature, gravity, and magnitude of the subject matter. We are talking about the bride of Christ, the Catholic Church, and it is incumbent upon the faithful, especially our bishops, to steer her in accordance with the teachings of Christ and her bride, and when we deviate, and deviate gravely, then anger and sarcasm are understandable responses and should be overlooked. So let’s look past the anger and sarcasm and focus on the core of the issue that triggered the anger and sarcasm in the first place.  

I would now like to add some of my personal observations and thoughts about the Neo.  


A bishop, with his priests and deacons, are ordained to teach, govern, and sanctify the faithful of his diocese. He is to be a good teacher (clear and consistent), a holy priest (humble, meek, and giving), and a wise and effective chief executive (stands above all and yet serves all). He is to lead by his words, and more so, by his acts and deeds. The true measurement of his leadership is how his faithful perceives him in his role as bishop, as with any president of a company. One who governs fairly, consistently, and magnanimously will be perceived well, but one who governs arbitrarily, impiously, or inconsistently will be vilified. And a leader has to be seen to be impartial and not biased in favor of a select few or group. The message he conveys is crucial to how he is to be perceived.

So let us take a look at the message our archbishop conveys. He made a decision (fatal to his governance I may add) by favoring one select group, the Neocatechumenate way. He not only embraced it, he joined the movement, and by doing so, he is now perceived, rightly or wrongly, as kowtowing to the Neo, as being biased, wherein his decisions and acts are based on the needs and desires of the Neo, not the entire archdiocese. He has failed to not only rise above the fray, he has become subservient to one part of that fray. His acts and deeds have irrevocably divided this community. 

The archbishop may claim that this is not true and he may actually believe it, but his acts and deeds belie his words. Let’s take a look at some of them. He directed that all fiesta masses be moved up by one hour so that he can have time to return to his home and preside over the Neo mass at his home every Saturday night. He holds “pizza” dinners every Sunday evening for the Neo seminarians and the Neo missionaries (compare their treatment, which is lavish, to how the archbishop treats non Neo priests---it pales in comparison!). He will not participate in any other archdiocesan event if it interferes with his Neo retreat or some other Neo event, such as his glaring absence from the opening novena and mass for the patroness saint of Guam, Santa Maria Kamalen because he is holding his pizza Sunday night event, and the recent 65th Anniversary FDMS Gala dinner because he was at a Neo retreat. He personally takes every newly ordained Neo priest to his hometown for their first personal mass to places as far away as Italy, Poland, and South America, something that no other bishop in this world has done. 

His Vicar General, Chancellor, Vice Chancellor, and most of the employees at the Chancery are Neo members. As I was told, he fired the entire Archdiocesan Finance Council members a few years ago because they voted against giving the Yona property (worth millions) to the Neo, and replaced the Council with (mostly) Neo members. He told Fr. Manny and Fr. June that he will incardinate them in Guam only if they join the Neo (apparently, their long years of dedicated service and loyalty to this archdiocese was not enough). Yet, with Fathers Santiago, Gallagher, and Wadsen, he, without consultation with his presbyterial council and college of consulters and in violation of canon law, incardinated these Neo priests despite no connection to Guam other than that they are Neo priests. 

These priests had left (reason thereof no one knows for sure) their dioceses and needed a benevolent bishop to incardinate them in order to function as a priest.  And most recently, he fired Fr. Paul threatening that if he did not resign, he would face a painful and arduous experience in the closure of his assignment at Santa Barbara (imagine the message he has given to other non Neo priests---get out of line in what I want to do and you will face a painful and arduous consequence).  The Neo priests, especially those from the Yona seminary, have free and unfettered access to him, unlike for the non Neo priests. Fr. Pius, the spiritual master of the Neo in Guam, stays at the archbishop's home. There are more, plenty more examples, but the preceding examples make the point that the archbishop is not the impartial and fair leader that he swore to be when he was ordained, and that is required to be a good and effective bishop. 

So let us now look at the Neo itself as it is organized and run in Guam. They proclaim that anyone and everyone are invited to their Saturday masses. Well, if that is true, why aren’t these masses published in the parish bulletins, and why aren’t they announced. And why hold them outside the Church? Why are they so inaccessible? The answer is clear. They are not set up for anyone to come. They are designed to serve only members of the Neo.

They proclaim that they are not elitist, cultic, secretive, and arrogant, but when you have the archbishop in your pocket and when they tell us not to fret and whine but to come and listen, what kind of message is being conveyed? The message is this: whatever we are currently doing in our journey to know and love our Lord within the Catholic Church, it is not enough. You can only be saved if you join the Neo. These catechists are allowed unfettered access to masses to announce their upcoming catechesis, and what is that message? They were once lost and now they are saved. How arrogant is that? Whether they have intended it or not, every non Neo is made to feel inadequate because of the special treatment the Neo receives from the archbishop and because of the message they convey, a message the archbishop has totally embraced. 

So let us take a look at the parishes where the Neo are located.  They have permanently occupied parish rooms or offices, they make use of rooms or spaces without paying anything, they hold meetings there and they hold events there, freely and without restraint. Now see for yourself if these Neo parishes allow such unfettered uses by non Neo groups or persons. 

So let us now talk about something far more important (and I think dangerous) for our Catholic Church. The Neo has catechists who go around preaching and forming groups, and thereafter each group elects a Responsible as their leader. Members of that group are instructed to check with their catechists and responsibles before they make any decision involving themselves, their children, their work, etc. In other words, these responsibles and catechists have become their spiritual and secular counselors in all aspects of their lives. They are not told to go see their parish priest or any priest for that matter. In short, these responsibles and catechists have supplanted the parish priest in their roles as spiritual teacher and counselor for these members and their children. They have become priests in their own right. None of these non-clerical responsibles and catechists undergoes the rigorous formation of becoming a priest. They are all lay persons.  Yet, they preach and teach as though they are priests steeped in the teachings and doctrines of the Church. Very scary and very dangerous indeed! 

Now, the Neo are fond of saying that they do not neglect going to parish masses and in fact are instructed to go to one once a month. But in practice they don’t. Why? It’s only human nature not to do so. Why go to another mass after you had spent several hours on a Saturday night with your “family” for mass (Eucharist is how they describe it) and then dine with them afterwards? And the powers-that-be of the Neo know this and do not do anything about it. Why? Because the regular mass we all attend is not worth attending in their eyes. 

And as for the masses (Eucharist) on Saturday nights, why hold them separately from the rest of the faithful? Why not in a regular Church as everyone else do?  This fact alone sends a clear message that what the Neo does is special and privileged and only by joining the Neo will you be also to enjoy this privileged status and perk. 

And the nature of the Eucharist? Yes, it is significantly different from a regular mass, and why is it?

Because the neo does things differently, and because they are treated with special deference and favor by our archbishop, their status is indeed has been elevated above the rest of the faithful. They are better than us. They are different. They hold special knowledge to salvation. They sing different songs. They dance at mass and at funerals. They confess their sins publicly. They mouth off mantras to make them feel different. Invariably, neocats can't help but feel that they are special and different indeed (especially in this archdiocese) and they deserve special attention and status. The rest of us have to struggle along, and yet, they tell us that we can change our status but only if we listen and join the Neo. The Neo believe that they are not only the way to salvation but they are the salvation for the Catholic Church. Period. They truly believe that without them, the Catholic Church is doomed. Apparently, our archbishop feels the same way.

There are about 500 neocats in Guam, or less than ½ of 1 percent of Guam’s Catholic population, and yet they wield enormous power that is atrociously disproportionate to their size and numbers. They have the archbishop to thank for that.

Why does the archbishop allow the Neo to send women with vocations in the religious life to a Carmelite monastery in New Jersey when Guam is home to a Carmelite monastery for over 40 years? Is it because that particular Carmelite monastery in New Jersey is a Neo Carmelite monastery and Fr. Pius is the spiritual director?  Someone who was present at one of the events held at this Carmelite monastery mentioned that Fr. Pius is the spiritual director or somehow is intimately connected with the New Jersey monastery. And what does the archbishop say about it? Nothing. He allows it, and in fact supports it by presiding over masses in the New Jersey monastery for our Guam women. Just check around. There are hundreds of pictures verifying this fact. This is just one more piece of evidence of the archbishop's bias in favor of the Neo, a bias that corrodes and undermines the unity of the Catholic Church in Guam. The archbishop will sacrifice anything and anyone in Guam for his beloved Neo. 

The Neo collects a substantial sum of money from their members during a scrutiny, amounts that can go over a hundred thousand dollars for just one scrutiny alone. The archbishop personally receives a special cut, a “gift”, from these amounts of money, with one neocat saying as high as 50%.  Why? And does he keep the money for himself? And if he does, is this not improper? It sure does not pass the “smell” test!

Because of the way it was designed, the Neo is by nature cultic, secretive, and elitist. It holds separate masses and in private homes or locations. The liturgy is different. The songs are different. The music is different. They dance around a make-shift altar (it is called the banquet table). They clap during mass and at funerals. The effect is earthy, and it is designed to make one feel emotionally connected to the liturgy. They publicly share their sins and life stories. They meet as a group for the Word every week, and more for preparations. They report to responsibles and catechists, not to pastors or priests. They have their own unique icons, statutes, and cards that are sold in Neo stores. They teach that the group to which you belong is now your new family, and only family.  They are taught that the Neo is reclaiming what was done in the early Church, and that what they do is the true and authentic Church. They have special liturgies for Easter mass, Pentecost, and other events. They have Neo priests and Neo seminaries. The Neo priests all follow the same line of thought, and that is why their homilies are all the same. They say the same things over and over.  Original thought, creative thinking, and questions are discouraged or repressed. They are told to just follow the script and stay with the script. Do not deviate. Thus, they all imitate each other or their leaders by growing beards and uttering the same cues and making the same gestures.  They are told that they are now different, and are made to feel different. They are made to feel special and hence superior, and that the Neo is the only way to salvation. Even the seminarians are made to feel different and superior, as though what they do and how they are being formed is different, and hence superior, to other seminarians. Their differences are touted. Unity and communion with the mainstream church is either ignored or deemphasized. They become Born Again Christians. And because of how they are molded, they naturally become defensive if questioned or asked about their ways. They simply respond by saying try it first before you make conclusions, as though one needs to see something before it can be accepted as truth or fact. Christianity would have died out shortly after Christ ascended into heaven if that was the case. 

Yes, they have helped those who become members and indeed have saved marriages and promote life, but because of the way it was designed or formatted, the inherent differences found in the Neo keeps them separate and apart from the rest of the faithful, and hence a natural cause of division within the Church. Perhaps those problems are for Rome to address, but the bishop of a diocese can do much to manage if not eliminate, these structural problems and to preserve unity. Unfortunately, our archbishop, by joining the Neo, has chosen to follow, not lead and preside. This is the message that our archbishop has conveyed and this is why our archdiocese is irrevocably divided. 

56 comments:

  1. I don't know... all this blabber, gossip and superstition are spread in this Jungle without restrain. The "core issue" was declared by Tim Rohr as the contemplative consumption of the Host in Eucharistic celebrations in the Way which is a non-issue, as Popos Paul 6th, John Paul 2nd and Benedict 16th all witnessed. So please, be at least reasonable!

    "There are six things that the LORD strongly dislikes, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers." (Proverbs 6:16-19)

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    1. Popes Paul 6th, John Paul 2nd and Benedict 16th all witnessed.

      Read this about the Pharisees of our time:
      http://neocatheart.blogspot.com/2013/12/pharisees.html

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    2. You are so self absorbed Everything is WWWNEOCATHEART. NEOCAT YouTube,music,liturgy,and who knows whatelse. Just goes to show that it's the NCW or the highway.

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    3. neocatheart is Zoltan's blog. His words, His thoughts. His opinion. His alone. Everytime he cites it as a source for information to his comments, I chuckle at the notion he thinks we haven't figured it out already.
      I am sure that Zoltan is good man who started out with good intentions to defend his neo. However, it is time for those closest to him to help him reign it in.

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    4. A Catholic ListeningDecember 23, 2013 at 9:29 AM

      Dear Zoltan:

      I just read the post and found it compelling, logical, and convincing, but you characterize it as lies without showing why. Please refrain from name calling if you can't argue your point logically and rationally. I would really like to see an intelligent response to the points and issues raised by this post because the points and issues raised are very serious. Perhaps you can reply to each point and issue raised so that we can discuss them intelligently, rationally, and in the spirit of what is good for the Catholic Church. It is disheartening(and illogical) to see responses that attack the motives and character of the messenger because as you know, the messenger is not the issue but the message is. This is a forum to distill the truth so I would like to concentrate on the messages being presented, not the character, personality, background, and motive of the messenger. If the truth is on your side, then the truth will expose any message that is in error or is false. If we maintain the integrity of this forum, then we would all gain from this dialogue and debate,

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    5. Yes, it is my own blog. I have always said that. Just click on my name and you'll see. ;)

      This is how I started: "I start this blog because I would like to have some no-fancy straight talk about faith and truth among my Christian sisters and brothers, including believers in my own denomination, the Catholics. I am a member of the Neocatechumenal Way, so please forgive me if my experiences bound me to this form of faith communities."

      http://neocatheart.blogspot.com/2013/12/no-fancy-straight-talk-about-faith-and.html

      Peace be with you! :)

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    6. 18 Whoever conceals hatred with lying lips
      and spreads slander is a fool.

      19 Sin is not ended by multiplying words,
      but the prudent hold their tongues..

      23 A fool finds pleasure in wicked schemes,
      but a person of understanding delights in wisdom.

      24 What the wicked dread will overtake them;
      what the righteous desire will be granted.

      Proverbs 10

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    7. Dear Zoltan:

      You seem oblivious to everything that has been said. Are you saying that the post are all lies or that the author has devised a wicked scheme? If that is the case, please tell me why they are lies and how they are a part of a wicked scheme.because I was struck by the details and force of the post.

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    8. Listen to the spirit of truth, not to the spirit of slander and false witness. Never get engaged into discussion with a slanderer. Because he who is the slanderer was a liar from the beginning. Read in John 8:44. Also:

      "A wicked person listens to deceitful lips;
      a liar pays attention to a destructive tongue."

      Proverbs 17:4

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    9. ""For this I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice.’ 38 Pilate asked him, ‘What is truth?’"" (John 18:37-38)

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    10. Zoltan, anyone can pull scripture out of context to make it fit their theology. Address the issue for the umpteenth time. If you think we are all liars and slanderers then follow your own advice and stop engaging the blog. really dude, your responses are getting silly!

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  2. And what is the spirit of truth?

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    1. ""38 Pilate asked him, ‘What is truth?" ""

      John 18:37-38 (See above.)

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    2. And how can I come to know this truth?

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  3. Well, the writer claims her writing is not hearsay because she claims to be an ex-neo, but if you read into the Statutes of Neocatechumenal Way, there are stages in the journey. How far into the NCW did she journey? This would render how much of what she shared is factual experiences. I cannot venture to share about "Scrutinies" in the NCW if I have not experienced that stage.
    The questioning of money continues to arise from those opposing the NCW. From my experience, before any collection is done, there is always a dollar amount goal expressed beforehand. For example, if we need to purchase altar wine, a collection will be made for the total cost to make the purchase.
    I have yet to experience any room to doubt where my money is going.

    A Catholic Listening: I want to agree with you when you mention, "It is disheartening(and illogical) to see responses that attack the motives and character of the messenger because as you know, the messenger is not the issue but the message is"
    This has been repeated so many times on this blog but I think it was always used for Tims benefit. When Neo members approached this blog they were shunned and told to leave the church. There are many other hurtful words being proclaimed against the NCW, Archbishop and "Neo" Clergy, but Tim decided it wasn't important to moderate those comments.
    As with the writer above, Tim chooses to use it because she is an ex-neo but everytime those who are currently experiencing the NCW share their experiences Tim chooses to remind them to stick to the clear issue their experiences are labeled as null and void. Ironically, no one representing the NCW has denied the issue. So I almost want to say that the Real Issue is that there is no Issue. Change will happen if it is wrong, we should just wait and let it unfold.
    Yes, even I myself have resorted to trying and discrediting the messenger but in the same way that the Issue of the NCW lies in the Norms of Receiving Communion, why are so many other false accusations repeatedly shared? I guess its an attempt to discredit the NCW as a whole.

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  4. All these issues are apropo. There is no greater a disobedience than that towards the Eucharist and every experience shared on this blog is indicative of how this disobedience has been allowed and encouraged to be continued.
    Everytime the issue is brought back to Tim, as if he created this strife, you reveal more and more how dismissive and deep in denial this organization is.
    It's way past due time that the neo audit it's rhetoric and behavior.

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  5. "stages in journey" "the way" "walking"? from the outside looking in, its as if we are debating between two different beliefs. if there was a post that simply said "i am more catholic then you and my mass is more fun" it would actually make more sense.

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  6. Now you are insinuating that these are two different beliefs. The NCW follows the RCIA format. The issue is that NCW does not obey the norms of the church in the manner of receiving communion. All the other liturgies that signify the different stages have been approved. The NCW is no more catholic than you, we are no different. The Mass we attend is no more higher than the one you attend. Walking, Proceeding, Journeying, Traveling these can all be used to describe the process of moving towards heaven.

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    1. so you hold sabbath on a different day, receive communion differently, but you're not different? :|

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  7. Seriously Zoltan,

    You really aren't making any sense at all. You quote from the bible yet...you do not explain the reasoning behind the quotes. We seem to be asking simple questions and yet you deviate from the question by talking nonsense about other things or find it simpler to ignore it and just quote away. Maybe the reason behind all your talks is because you really don't have or don't know the answer to it.

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    1. it makes sense in his mind and i guess thats all that counts :)

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    2. ""10 Then the disciples went up to him and asked, 'Why do you talk to them in parables?'

      11 In answer, he said, 'Because to you is granted to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not granted.

      12 Anyone who has will be given more and will have more than enough; but anyone who has not will be deprived even of what he has.

      13 The reason I talk to them in parables is that they look without seeing and listen without hearing or understanding.

      14 So in their case what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah is being fulfilled: Listen and listen, but never understand! Look and look, but never perceive!""

      Mt 13:10-14

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    3. Zoltan, sir. Please stop mocking scripture.

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  8. If you think that Neocatechumenal way is against good doctrine and liturgy, send a letter to msr. Canizares, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, to msr. Rylko, president of the Pontifical Council for the Laity or directly to Pope Francis.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/cruzgloriosa/
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaLa2yMzpVE
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmDrpQKEmxo



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    1. Will they send out the letters? Well, they won't, because they know that their blabber and superstitions do not measure up in Rome... ;)

      Just try to read the 23 paragraph nonsense on the top! Is there any evidence supporting this avalanche of loose talk?! Of course there is nothing! Sweet heavens, who do they think is so stupid that would buy this stuff?

      Well, this is the place called Tim's Jungle! ;( ;(

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    2. So vile. So sad. You should seriously refrain from using the computer for a few days and collect yourself. You're sounding unhinged.

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    3. Triplex you are beginning to sound like zoltan. Everything seems to be www.com. must b from the same community.

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  9. in the diocese of Pope (Rome), we are 20.000, and all these stories do not feel

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    1. I just love the way you say "we are 20,000" because all I know is 'we are One,Holy,Catholic and Apostolic Church".

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    2. But you are one who would exclude the NCW right?

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    3. No trikex did with the WE ARE.

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  10. By the way, did any non Neo members get invited to the luncheon for the visiting Bishop from Rome at the government house on Sunday. They probably gave him their persecuted stories to carry back to Rome.

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  11. Yes, I am very anti-neo and I was surprised to receive an invitation to the lunch at government house. I did not realize it was a primarily a neo event until I arrived. I think I was probably invited because for many years I have donated to the seminary. Until recent events I felt, although the neos could be annoying, the seminary produced good, sincere priests and that this was good for Guam. I still believe the seminary produces good priests but now understand that the harm the movement causes especially for the non-neo priests. I'm glad if the other diocesan seminary really is established. My conscience would be more comfortable contributing there.

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    1. I am glad you got invited. Hope you had a good time. On your note of producing good priest well I like one who is spiritual. I watch the seminarians when they attend masses at the cathedral on various occassions and some of them don't even bother to participate wholeheartedly. They are either whispering to each other or giggling. So much for good examples with proper behavior in church.

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    2. I found the reply by Anonymous (December 23, 2013 at 11:55 PM), a self-identified "anti-neo" to the question by Anonymous (December 23, 2013 at 9:44PM) about the invitation to the luncheon for the visiting Bishop from Rome quite interesting. The speculation by "11:55PM Anonymous" that the invitation was probably extended because of "many years" of donating to the seminary is quite likely an accurate one.

      Thanks to what I have learned over the past few months, I will no longer donate to the "AAA" (FKA "CCA") because I refuse to support RMS. Like "11:55PM Anonymous," I would prefer to contribute to the non-Neo diocesan seminary — preferably a DIRECT contribution so that my funds don't "accidentally" get diverted to RMS via "AAA."

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    3. You are rather rude Mary Lou. So what if this person got invited to the luncheon. What this person does with his/her money is his/her business. You are just as horrible as Zoltan. I am not a Neo and never will be. There is so much bitterness in your heart. When you are not happy you want others to feel the way you do. Plain and simple. If you don't give whatsoever to the church, then don't.

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    4. Anonymous at December 24, 2013 at 12:50 PM, read the comments again. Your analysis is way off and does not come close to what you have described.

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    5. Beware to all who contribute...the Archbishop has long sticky fingers. We do need to support the Church, but there is no reason to support his money grabs. Why do you think the entire Archdiocese is being adited? Probably because they fear he has been getting a cut of the action all along. This is sickening.

      Safe to give to the parish so it stays there, and safe to give to the Capucchins. Any diocese-wide appeal likely to be siphoned off before it gets to its intended purpose. Maybe the Archbishop has been learning too much from how the Govt works!

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    6. A percentage of what is collected from the parishes go to the chancery for their so called budget operations. If ordot church collects an average of 15,000 a month then take 10% which is 1500×12=18000. So take 18000×13 parishes=234000 turned in to the chancery for their operational expenses. This is only an example.

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    7. Dear Anonymous, Dec 24th 2013 at 12:50pm...

      In regards to your message to Mary Lou about being so rude, I beg to differ and I, too, have been donating my money to a much more visible cause. I like to know where my money goes.

      I attend non-neo priests/parishes whether it be capuchin or diocesan ...I can honestly say I no longer donate to the collection basket...I give my money in the form of mass intentions because I know where the money goes. If the church needs money for building, maintenance, or any other purpose for that specific church...I give my donation to the parish office for that specific purpose. I will not drop money into to the collection baskets anymore because I know a portion goes to the chancery but for what use? To help support the Redemptorist Mater or whatever the Archbishop sees fit to spend it on? No thank you.

      Yes, I am not a neo and choose not to be one. I know where Jesus is and if I ever need him I could easily go to the blessed sacrament ..and if I need advice, I could go to a priest, and if I need to confess I know I can confess to a priest and ONLY a priest. I know I can count on the Catholic Church as my salvation as long as I am faithful to our lord and to his commandments no one needs to tell me otherwise.

      I was born from a catholic family and baptized in a Catholic Church, raised as a catholic and taught the catholic faith...and as far as I am concerned...I will die a catholic with a traditional catholic mass in a Catholic Church with a catholic priest presiding in union with the Magisterium of the Catholic Church!

      And I definitely know in my heart that the NEO is not thee way!

      when did Jesus establish His Church? When? When He was here upon earth. And how long ago is it that Christ was upon earth? You know our Christian era dates from Him. He was born many centuries ago. That is an historical fact admitted by all. He lived on earth thirty-three years. That is the time Christ established His Church on earth. Any Church, that has not existed this long, is not the Church of Jesus Christ, but is the institution or invention of some man, but not of God, not of Christ.

      And to this we answer, if the Catholic Church had been once the true church, then she is still true, and shall be the true Church of God to the end of time, or Jesus Christ has deceived us. For Christ has promised that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church. He says that He has built it upon a rock, and that the gates of hell shall never prevail against it.



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  12. There was only one comment moderated in the history of this blog and it was when I banned Zoltan early on because I believed he was not representative of most neos and his behavior would badly reflect on otherwise good and sincere people. I have published everything else and have left the comments open for quite a while. However, that said, this is MY blog and I can do and say whatever I want with it. You are a guest here. I have told you before to start your own blog and do the hard work that I have done to create a readership. But the best you can do is parasite on to mine.

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  13. "However, that said, this is MY blog and I can do and say whatever I want with it."
    Tim seems becoming like a little spoil kid. "THIS IS MINE DO NOT TOUCH IT OTHERWISE I WILL TELL MUM AND SHE WILL PUNISH YOU"...Tim grow up and accept that YOU ARE NOT GOD. In all these years in the Church you have not understand anything about Christianity, but do not worry you can begin from tonight that's why we celebrate Christmas every year.

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    1. thats out of context. now you're just fishing for insults.

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    2. Anon at 10:08: Um, it is his blog. Not yours. He does not have to allow you to act a fool, yet there you are.

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    3. To Anonymous (December 24, 2013 at 10:08 AM): How very interesting that you and I interpreted that particular sentence — "However, that said, this is MY blog and I can do and say whatever I want with it" — differently. You see it as a vehicle to insult Tim as "becoming like a little spoil [sic] kid" whereas I view it as an opportunity to thank Tim for providing this blog as a forum for us to share our concerns about the division in the Church in Guam, which for me, began in January 2006 although I had heard — and dismissed — such concerns prior to hearing the Archbishop on KOLG.

      Tim also pointed out that all of us who choose to comment are guests. It is abundantly clear that you and some "guests" have a great deal of contempt for our "host," Tim Rohr. If any of these guests — particularly those in the NCW — think that Tim started this blog in July 2013 as an attack on the NCW, they are clearly ignorant of the earliest posts. On August 28, in a post entitled “TO BE CLEAR” Tim clarified that “ … JungleWatch is not concerned with the NCW …” Go back to the very beginning of the blog, people, and see what the first entries are about — they were NOT about the NCW. Check it out for yourself if you don’t believe me. Posts were not tagged as NCW until August.

      Thank you, Tim Rohr, for providing this blog as a vehicle to voice our questions, concerns, frustrations — and, at times, anger — about the division of the Church in Guam. I pray that God will send a faithful, orthodox, competent and impartial shepherd to heal, unite and lead the Church.

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    4. Dear Mary Lou, here is why we have to respect the Pope and Church leaders. We are the members, but Christ us the Head!

      ""15 When they had eaten, Jesus said to Simon Peter, 'Simon son of John, do you love me more than these others do?' He answered, 'Yes, Lord, you know I love you.' Jesus said to him, 'Feed my lambs.'

      16 A second time he said to him, 'Simon son of John, do you love me?' He replied, 'Yes, Lord, you know I love you.' Jesus said to him, 'Look after my sheep.'

      17 Then he said to him a third time, 'Simon son of John, do you love me?' Peter was hurt that he asked him a third time, 'Do you love me?' and said, 'Lord, you know everything; you know I love you.' Jesus said to him, 'Feed my sheep."" (John 21:15-17)

      Merry Xmas! ;)

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    5. Mary Lou are you living in the clouds?
      since the beginning Most Reverend Tim Rohr affirmed that Fr. Paul was asked to resign because he did not accept the Way in his parish. And this is the fundamental problem, because everything has begun with a LIE, the devil was a liar since the beginning. The prince of this world is the devil...but the slaughtered lamb wins the beast.
      Marry Christmas

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    6. Zoltan:

      As Archbisop Anthony Apuron is the successor of Peter, he is under the same admonition to look after and feed the sheep, as a father would to his children. There was nothing paternal about how he handled Fr. Paul, to name but one example. You may want to admonish him for not heeding to Christ's admonition.

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    7. It seems that the only thing the Archbishop is good at feeding, is HIMSELF.

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    8. The successor of Peter is the Bishop of Rome who is the Pope. Do not give Apuron a title he does not deserve.

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    9. Why don't you read your comments aloud to yourself, because you sound more like what you just said. LIKE A CHILD, you just mirrored what you just said. If you're a man, shame on you, I can imagine you might even cry loudly. That's how I picture you. Sorry, I can't say this more gently, so cry......

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  14. Anonymus- I just love the way you say "we are 20,000" because all I know is 'we are One,Holy,Catholic and Apostolic Church".-

    Pernicious and instrumental affirmation.

    Neocatechumenal Way is an itinerary of Catholic Formation, valid for our society and for our times. (John Paul II, Apostolic letter "Ogniqualvolta"), this declaration is part of the MAGISTERIUM of the POPE.

    "Can. 752 Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it."


    Sorry for my english.

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    1. Dear Anonymous, Dec 24th 2013 at 12:50pm...

      In regards to your message to Mary Lou about being so rude, I beg to differ and I, too, have been donating my money to a much more visible cause. I like to know where my money goes.

      I attend non-neo priests/parishes whether it be capuchin or diocesan ...I can honestly say I no longer donate to the collection basket...I give my money in the form of mass intentions because I know where the money goes. If the church needs money for building, maintenance, or any other purpose for that specific church...I give my donation to the parish office for that specific purpose. I will not drop money into to the collection baskets anymore because I know a portion goes to the chancery but for what use? To help support the Redemptorist Mater or whatever the Archbishop sees fit to spend it on? No thank you.

      Yes, I am not a neo and choose not to be one. I know where Jesus is and if I ever need him I could easily go to the blessed sacrament ..and if I need advice, I could go to a priest, and if I need to confess I know I can confess to a priest and ONLY a priest. I know I can count on the Catholic Church as my salvation as long as I am faithful to our lord and to his commandments no one needs to tell me otherwise.

      I was born from a catholic family and baptized in a Catholic Church, raised as a catholic and taught the catholic faith...and as far as I am concerned...I will die a catholic with a traditional catholic mass in a Catholic Church with a catholic priest presiding in union with the Magisterium of the Catholic Church!

      And I definitely know in my heart that the NEO is not thee way!

      when did Jesus establish His Church? When? When He was here upon earth. And how long ago is it that Christ was upon earth? You know our Christian era dates from Him. He was born many centuries ago. That is an historical fact admitted by all. He lived on earth thirty-three years. That is the time Christ established His Church on earth. Any Church, that has not existed this long, is not the Church of Jesus Christ, but is the institution or invention of some man, but not of God, not of Christ.

      And to this we answer, if the Catholic Church had been once the true church, then she is still true, and shall be the true Church of God to the end of time, or Jesus Christ has deceived us. For Christ has promised that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church. He says that He has built it upon a rock, and that the gates of hell shall never prevail against it.

      As for NCW... You can argue and argue that you are under the umbrella of the catholic faith...but as I posted above the words from:
      The One True Church
      by Fr. Arnold Damen, S.J. (1815 - 1890)
      Imprimatur: Michael Augustine, Archbishop of New York.

      Any Church, that has not existed this long, is not the Church of Jesus Christ, but is the institution or invention of some man, but not of God, not of Christ.

      You have to remember...your NCW is the institution or invention of Kiko and Carmen..... Christ already created a church...it is called the Catholic Church in which St. Peter became the first pope. You can not claim your service is catholic if you hold your church outside of the catholic church. Think about it! I mean.. really... think about it!


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  15. I was brought up in The Way. I affirm it is cultic aat at minimum sect. Everything said in the authors large paragraph about the creating dependency of members and a sense of specialness and division from mainstream church, and everyone else, is true. I'll tell you something else too. Around 2011 Kiko ordered all Neocat members to delete their Facebooks as he declared it an instrument of the devil. Many members complied but not me. Think about that for a while..

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  16. Anonymous 8:17 I'm so happy for you that you chose to use your own intelligence and conscience instead of letting Kiko do it for you
    Agnes

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