Friday, December 20, 2013



  1. Lets be realists here and accept these facts....

    We do not reflect the views of the vast majority of Catholics on this island.
    Readers who favor the NCW do not represent the whole. Those who oppose the NCW are a concentrated minority of Catholics who are clinging to our Pre-Vatican II church. As the radio dj joe_mtm has mentioned, this is the crux of the matter.
    This blog will never see peace or resolve. There are only two parties present here. On one side we have the members of the NCW, on the other end we have those who for lack of better words, are Traditionalists who cannot come to terms with the Liturgy of Vatican II.
    So in other words, we have a charism that maximizes Vatican II up against those who maximize the flaws of this New Evangelization.
    Take this as "CLASSIC" but this is the truth.

    You see I havnt denied Tims claims against the NCW, yes changes need to be made. In the meantime though, this will not stop me from continuing. See this is what Tim wants eventually. Because of the imperfections of the NCW, he wants it removed from the church, he wants those in the NCW to quit and have nothing to do with it. Does this approach solve anything? No.
    But you see, this approach/reaction is okay with Tim, because this is a reflection of what has been happening on this island. On numerous occasions Tim has encouraged readers to leave their parish, go to another one, and bring your wallets with you. Tim has repeatedly criticized the NCW for separating themselves from the parish and this is not true. Celebrating within the small communities is vital in this itinerary of renewing ones baptism. When it comes to taking identity with a certain parish, I wonder what is Tims response? the Friary?
    Again, take this as an Ad Hominum if you want, but this info is very vital, to make everyone understand.
    Certain readers have commented that they have been approached by members of the NCW claiming that salvation is only available through an NCW experience. On the contrary, I have been told that salvation is only attainable through the Traditional Latin Mass. Mind you, this was told to me by people who have separated themselves from the parish. According to Tim, they were kicked out to the curb. I find it hard to believe that people are being kicked out of parishes. Hard but true, you removed yourself. I can speak of this because I did it also. I removed myself and went to another parish because I had judgments of the NCW.

    Heres a little bit more of my ad hominum attack
    As Tim says, "the real issue" lies in the Liturgy within the NCW. This is another problem I have when it comes from the mouth of Tim. I cannot understand why he is defending the norms on "manner of distribution of Holy Communion" when he himself does not agree with these norms.
    You see, Tim has his own army. I once witnessed a facebook dialogue between himself, chuck white, a connoly guy and Father Mike Crisostomo. Guess what was the topic? Patrons of the TLM thinking that they and The Latin Form were inferior to any other Form. Doesnt this sound familiar?
    I cant forget joe_mtm, THIS IS THE CRUX OF THE MATTER.

    If readers arent aware, Tim does not represent the average catholic. He is beyond and above that. He just doesnt share that with you.


    1. Funny. You seem to know quite a bit about me. Too bad you don't know more about your Catholic Faith. In the manner of distributing Holy Communion I was referring to the document Memoriale Domini of Paul VI emphasizing that while communion in the hand could be allowed it was not to be considered the norm. Read it for yourself. Because the TLM preserves the norm - as underlined by Paul VI for whom the Novus Ordo is named after - the manner of receiving communion in the TLM is in compliance with the norm. Educate yourself.

    2. Anonymous December 21, 2013 at 1:05am: You began by stating you wanted us to be real and truthful, yet you lie soon after. The context of my use of "the crux of the matter" was about the celebration of the liturgy of the Eucharist and not what you put forth.
      If you cant be truthful in your opening servo, everything else that follows is suspect.
      You label me a dj, yet it is you who is spinning the record.

  2. This blog is a mirror image of all the other traditionalist blogs out there on the internet. The sources of most of his findings can be found on those blogs too.
    Readers are being fooled to think that Tim is on their side when it comes to being faithful to the Norms of the Liturgy. He doesnt like these Norms altogether, but he wont tell you that. Hes smarter than that.

    I just think in the same way that Tim announces that members of the NCW have been fooled. Every reader on this blog has been fooled by the host himself.

    Even in his letter to the Cardinal he again refuses to mention the dirty things he has said on this blog. He only notes that this blog is a reflection of the faithful who are afraid to cry out because of retribution.

    Tim is using you! THIS IS THE CRUX OF THE MATTER!

    I think even Fr. Paul feels bad that theres no more attention on his case. Tim has taken all the attention. Tim knew exactly what he wanted to happen and how it could all play out.

    Tim has said, "I really dont care" about the NCW. If this was the case why would he store up all those archives that he is slowly revealing. Not like they matter.


    1. Ah, despair, despair. BTW, I didn't store anything. Gmail keeps everything and the recording was sent to me by someone else who stored it once the topic came up.

  3. Denial runs strong through this one.

    Also, all hail Tim! ( and something something something . . .)

  4. I don't attend the TLM. I am at my parish since ever since. I am not what you have called a "traditionalist " and not really sure what that means. I have long been concerned about the neo way before ive heard of this blog.
    I am sure that most of us that are not neo, and have had serious reservations about it from experience or research can tell you the same. Mr. Rohr has documents for his concerns while you merely malign his character based on your own personal vendetta against him.
    You must realize you have done nothing for your cause.

    1. There is no questioning on Tims Documents, but since he declares that the truth must be revealed, Truth is not limited to his favor. I believe I have brought up good points that reflect Tims actions on this blog. These points also compromise Tims views towards the "norms" of the church. There is no Personal vendetta against him, the vendetta is to let everyone know the truth. My reference as "ad hominum" attacks is just my way of sarcasm, because I myself am tired of this all. I really regret having to resort to a bit sarcasm. Im being honest as always.
      I referred to the "traditionals" as a concentrated minority, you my friend, except(minus) your reservations towards the NCW, represent the majority. The fact is, majority of our island have no idea what the NCW is.
      They go to church on Sundays and go about their daily catholic rituals. There is no problem with that, if indeed it helps them achieve the faith needed to gain heaven.
      My cause is to share some truth too.........truth is easy to share, but often hard to accept. Its up to you and everyone else. No Force!

  5. "Speaking only empirically, it is in fact SINCE the celebrant has turned around and the Mass said in local languages that the pews have emptied, the faith has waned, and Catholics have exited, not entered, the “door of faith”."-Tim Rohr

    These are Tims words in regards to the same mass that he is supposedly defending today. So in fact, Tim is telling you all that through the "New Mass" (not Latin), you have not entered the "door of faith". But this is "speaking only emperically" so this is derived upon Tims observation and because of this not only is it verifiable, it shall not be contested.

    Ad hominum again! But indeed I must try and discredit the source so that people know the truth. Dont be Fooled!

    1. Being generous for the sake of truth, if everything you say about Mr. Rohr is true (TLM, traditionalist and all) it still does not absolve the Archbishop from the actions he took on the radio and of the growing divide in this archdiocese because of his involvement with the neo.
      You have added nothing except to display a personal gripe against one person
      I don't think people come here to offer opinion on top of opinion. They come here to see what or if anyone, anywhere will respond to this serious matter that Mr. Rohr has factually presented.
      Even if you succeed to discredit Mr. Rohr in peoples heads, their hearts cannot escape the credibility of the serious and grave matter at hand.
      Kill the messenger, yet the message still exists.
      Your "truth" may also ring empty as it is hampered by your anonymity. If truth is what you seek to reveal, why is it you cant be truthful about who you are? Why cant Mr. Rohr be able to confront his accuser?

    2. I am stating an empirical fact, not an opinion. Since we have turned the priest around and said Mass in the local languages, Mass attendance has plummeted. By the way, Vatican II did not call for either of those practices.

    3. Tim, I have supported your views and had doubts about NCW since its introduction 25 years ago. I do enjoy the mass said in the Chammoro language. I do not understand Latin but I do understand my language. I do know who suggested to the Archbishop that NWC come visit the island and this person is in no way a NCW. How ironic


    I came across a video on youtube having the now Blessed JP II celebrating a Mass with the NCW.

  7. It ismoy about the celebration of the mass but rather the manner on which communion is distributed.

    1. If you skip ahead in the recording, you'll see Blessed JP II, taking part in the distribution.

    2. Yeah it's a1988 video. Vatican said otherwise in 2012. LISTEN AND FOLLOW THE RULES.

    3. Kilo had no business changing anything that deals with the mass. You follow his every move and direction. You are nothing more than his puppet and more over his money supplier. Sure would like to know what his bank account looks like.

  8. I'm sorry, but saying that the issue is between Pre-Vatican II traditionalists and those who are not is pretty stupid. I'm not calling the person who stated it as being stupid; I'm calling his or her comment as stupid.

    This is between the NCW and the rest of the Church. That's it. So I suggest we stick to that instead of trying to draw in unnecessary comments about traditionalists or liberals. It's either you're faithful or not. It's either you are obedient to what Rome has instituted for the reception of Holy Communion or not. Let's not enter into dumb and unnecessary territory.

  9. you don't just wake up one morning and hate the bright morning Sun. Something has to influence why you hate it or love it. The sun is the sun whether its shining here or in Saipan.
    The subject is not dumb and unnecessary territory. Those facts are necessary to be presented because it plays a big role in Tims stance against the NCW.
    This is about defending the norms of a liturgy that Tim himself does not approve of. Tims stance on the Liturgy of the "New Mass" is relevant to the issue very much.
    Accuse me of attempting to discredit the source, go ahead.
    What would you think of someone telling you stand up for the Mass in its correct form, but behind closed doors he is telling the guy next to him, I hate the Mass anyways.
    You said it best, "Its either your faithful or not."

    1. You also admitted that to usage of ad hominem arguments to show a point. It's not about the personal preferences of the person making statement. It's about the statement itself. Ad hominem statements only serve to be fallacies in argument. I say it's dumb and unnecessary for the simple reason that the issue is far more important than preferences.

      If I see someone steal a car, and I correct them by telling them it's wrong to do so, it matters not if I prefer them to not steal than to steal. It matters that the act of stealing is wrong and offenders must be dealt with.

      Same with the NCW. Just because someone prefers Latin Mass over the New Mass does not give them less of a right to speak up when disobedience occurs.

    2. Your comments fail for you still think this is about Tim. Many here have no connection with Tim other than similar regards for the NCW.
      Your tunnel vision does not allow you to see this truth. You see only your disdain for Tim. Your obsession has blinded you.

  10. I think it's true that most Catholics on Guam are oblivious of the goings-on of the neo-catechumenate movement. But it's not just traditionists vs. neos. I converted to Catholicism in a Jesuit parish decades ago and am thus a somewhat liberal Catholic. Yet I intensely dislike the neo-catechumenate movement, its arrogance and increasing aggressive attempts to take over Guam's parishes. I try to ignore the movement, its tactics and influences but it is getting more difficult to do so all the time. I hope Rome will take over and reform the neo-catechumenate movement in the same way it is attempting to revamp The Legion of Christ.