Isaias, most traditional Christians live their faith at a childish level as is clearly shown by the divorce between religion and life in them. Hence the absolute necessity for a serious process of conversion which takes place in our everyday experience. It is a time, guided by the Word of God and by celebrations of Penance and the Eucharist, and lived within the concrete framework of a community, to experience Christ the Saviour, to experience the Kingdom of God which is reaching out to us, and to experience the joy of peace. You need more walking. JOY
And you get to judge this "divorce" because you are...? And who gets to decide what is the content and measure of a "serious process of conversion?" You? Really? "Concrete framework? Whose? Yours? You can't even follow a simple instruction from the pope to receive communion. And we are supposed to believe that you are the adults in the room?
Anon @ 10:33 please define what you mean by "traditional Christians". Do you mean "Catholics"?Also, would you care to comment on the testimony of the ex-Neo "B"? Do you think "B" needs "more walking", or is he sufficiently screwed over by the "concrete framework of the community"?This is what I find really frustrating about you fanatics of the Neo - that even in the face of clear evidence of problems, you continue on as though there are none. And judge and insult while you do it.If I can be so bold, I would suggest you need "less walking".
Of course, the real truth is you NEVER go back to the parish, other than to start another community and take more people from it.
JOY is saying that outside the community, ( It is a time, guided by the Word of God and by celebrations of Penance and the Eucharist, and lived within the concrete framework of a community, to experience Christ the Savior to experience the Kingdom of God which is reaching out to us, and to experience the joy of peace.) ONE CANNOT EXPERIENCE JOY AND PEACE. C'mon JOY (catechist) you don't believe that.
The "divorce between religion and life", Anon 10:33am? Really? The real divorce between religion and life is living several decades in a closed, self-absorbed community while unhealthily depending upon an authoritative catechist to make the most basic decisions of Christian living for you.
@10:33 was planted my me....guess who wrote it? KIKO AND CARMEN.! hehawTim, Kiko and Carmen are going to be mad at you. Who are YOU to question them.
32 years? Did they return to the Parish? Can they now move mountains with their minds? Do they levitate? lol
Too bad our President didn't put in 32 years prep time. Even 3 would have helped.
What is Reditio?
Reditio,is the stage in the NCW that you do a public confession. It is after Traditio, that takes place when the Church hands over the Creed in a ceremony and Redition is the time you say publicly why you for example Believe in God the Father, tell your experience publicly, normally in a eucharist in the parish. I think many of you have heard those testimonies in church.
Isaias, can you list the step along the WAY so we are familiar? Thank You.
Thank you for sharing your insight, Isaias. Two things struck me as I read your post:• “… my community finished the Way two years ago after 32 years.” I recall a comment from an earlier blog post, as well as the translation of one of the talks Kiko Argüello gave, in which it was mentioned that it takes 30 years to complete the “journey” of the Way. Kiko’s explanation was that, since Jesus spent 30 years preparing for His mission, NCW members need to spend 30 years in their communities. I pity those who join the NCW in their senior years — they probably will not be able to complete the required 30 years of walking …• “As itinerant catechists change, it was doubly difficult to just be Obedient, because they contradict each other in their scrutinies.” Clearly there are no set procedures in how the different NCW “activities” — for the lack of a better term — are conducted. One would think that if the Scrutiny were an essential part of the NCW journey, there would be some “standard rules” that would apply. If catechists contradicted each other in conducting the scrutinies, it would be no surprise if the members ended up in a state of confusion.I’m thankful that you used your God-given Intellect to discern the inconsistencies and walk away. I also appreciate your willingness to explain the language of the NCW to us. I look forward to reading more of your contributions.God bless you!
Father Pius only finished a few years ago...he went to the HOLY LAND for his HONEYMOON. Arch A Bishop said so. At least he graduated. Arch A Bishop is not a graduate! Ric Eusebio will have to work on him some more.
Yeah, if there are no standard rules, are catechists just using their personal judgement on the issues? How knowledgeable are they about substance abuse, depression, etc? I think it is very dangerous to have so much power and not know how you can adversely impact someone's life. I hear many Neos talk about only God being able to judge them but then they have this whole step in their "walk" where they appear to be judging their community member. I recently heard about a community member on Guam completing suicide. I'd like to hear how the communities address mental health issues and if suicide is a common occurrence by NCW members.
I don't think they could agree on a set amount of years because at one point, I heard 40.
These are reasons why seminarians and those who try consecrated life need to be psychologically screened......anybody out there listening? No one in the Way, unless professionally prepared, should venture where they may do more harm than good. CAUTION,
Amen, Alma @6:55pm. I had a tussle with Fr. Edwin Bushu over this very issue. He struck a very fundamentalist tone, and seemed to have no appreciation whatsoever for the medical aspects of depression. Now is this the perspective of the NCW? I suspect so.
I know Pius in the Philippines, i was itenerant like him in charge of the Southern part of the Philippines, I opened the communities in Mindanao and in charge together with a team of a couple more provinces. I read his MA Thesis at the University of Santo Tomas way before he got assigned in the islands here. He was no where when i was itenerant in the Philippines.
The Steps that the NCW follows are: First Scrutiny, Shema, Second Scrutiny, Initiation to Prayer, Traditio, Reditio, Our Father (Second Initiation to Prayer) Electio (they dress in white gowns and make a renewal of Baptism at Easter Vigil).All in all it may take 30-40 yrs to finish. Neo Cats out there, am i correct!!!
So what happens when you are finished? Does that mean you are guaranteed heaven? What is left to do?And in the case that you do not finish, are you lesser of a person? Is salvation denied?
After 30-40 years they would have finished you off. You are finished. You become a total zombie. Any human attempt to predict or know who will be saved is an exercise in futility. Only God knows who will be saved. God gave us His only Son, Jesus Christ, to show us the path to heaven through His one, holy, and apostolic church. The Neos (wolves disguised in sheep's clothing) are showing another path. The Neocatechumenal Way is not for everyone, (as their proponents love to say) while the Catholic church is for EVERYONE!
After you reach Electio, the last stage, you renew your baptismal vows like anyone but yu dress yourselves in robes of white in the parish, and after, try to get money to finance yourself to go on a pilgrimage in Israel. My community hasn't gone yet because of lack of money. I pity the older ones who have medical conditions because they feel they have to go and the children can't believe it. Then accordingly you, go back to the parish and participate in the regular parish life. You still have to continue the community celebrations.
If you do not finish the Way,hmmm!!! Well i always tell the people when i was giving the evangelization, 4th day, Mission of the Church, that what is important is not to be SALT, LIGHT or LEAVEN but to BE SALTED. ENLIGHTENED and LEAVENED. I guess i was prophesying to my self.If i only had the mamotreto (the books we used) with me. I left it with a catechist back home, it was too heavy to bring along, but somewhere, in 2006-08, there was a call from Kiko to take them out from the catechist because of some errors, so obediently she gave her copies and even mine.Now, there is only one source to get the copies for the evangelization, someone appointed in the Mother Community. i do not know which one is it here in Guam. Mother community is first community that started the Way in Guam? You can only have access to it during scheduled Evangelization and Scrutinies. Outside those times....good luck. Hope this helps.
i recently began the journey of discernment toward joining a secular branch of a long-established order in the Church, a process that typically takes several years. the difference between the discernment process of that order and the neocat "way" are like night and day.in the particular province i'm discerning to join, there's no psychological pressure applied to you. your freedom and conscience are always respected. everyone prays to help you discern. fidelity to the Magisterium is one of the measures for whether you're ready to be accepted. and there's never-ending study, study, study: the catechism, the order's constitutions and statutes, the writings and charism of the founders. and there's prayer and service together with, and not apart from, the greater Catholic community.also: there are no secrets, or at least there are no secrets where confidentiality is not necessary. the constitutions and statutes are readily accessible to anyone. the order's founders and several of its members have been canonized or beatified, and their charisms and writings are well known. the governance of the order is established and respected, from rome down to the provincial and local level--"obedience" is in the correct sense of the word.why should the ncw be different from this?
Isaias, thank you for sharing your story. Your story and even B's story is not only helping those still "walking" but also those "thinking about" walking. My daughter just started to go to the Catechesis and this information can help open her eyes to what may be in store for her in the years to come. I hope we hear more stories such as yours for it is a cause to celebrate your return to our one true Church that is for EVERYONE!