Sunday, December 7, 2014

WHY YOU MUST NOT CALL YOUR PRIEST "PRESBYTER"

The NEO's, including the Archbishop (since he is one of them) refer to their priests as "presbyters". Here is what the Catholic Church says, the real one, not Kiko's:

Prominent among the problems is the decision of the translators to break with common Catholic usage and translate the Latin "presbyteri" into English not with "priests" but with "presbyters". This cannot meet with the Holy See's consent since it risks being misunderstood by the people and represents an unacceptable theological tendency. In particular it constitutes a retreat from a term that carries a sense of sacrality, that carries with it the history of the development of the faith in favor of a term which does not. 


To read more see THE PRESBYTER CONSPIRACY and Chuck White's HALF-BAKED PRIESTS.

18 comments:

  1. Pope Francis uses the word "Presbyter". So Diana says you are spreading "PROPOGANDA "



    DianaDecember 15, 2014 at 11:17 AM
    Dear Anonymous at 9:46 am,

    I am not demoting anything. It is the jungle who is spreading this propaganda around and demoting the word "presbyter" when it means the same thing as "priest."

    You want to hear Pope Francis say the word "presbyter." Below is what Pope Francis stated to the participants in the 67th General Assembly of the Italian Episcopal Conference, which was held at the Domus Pacis of St. Mary of the Angels in Assisi last month. According to St. Francis in his speech (Capitalization is my emphasis):

    “Priests like this cannot be improvised: they are forged through the valuable formative work of the Seminary, and Ordination consecrates them forever as men of God and servants of His people”. However, “the identity of the PRESBYTER, precisely as it comes from above, demands he follow a daily itinerary of reappropriation, starting from that which made of him a minister of Jesus Christ. … The formation of which we speak …. is without end, as priests never cease to be disciples of Jesus and to follow Him. Therefore, formation as discipleship accompanies the ordained minister throughout his life”, writes the Holy Father. “Initial and continuing formation are two parts of a single entity: the path of the PRESBYTER disciple, enamored of his Lord and constantly following him”.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kathyschiffer/2014/11/no-to-clerical-or-functionary-priests-says-pope-francis/

    As you can see in the weblink that I provided above, Anonymous, Pope Francis said the word "Presybter." It is unfortunate that instead of looking up the information yourself, you blindly follow Tim Rohr in everything he says without question. The "Presbyter Conspiracy" that Tim Rohr and Chuck White mentions are all propaganda that they made up themselves.

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    1. Yes, and it isn't it telling while the rest of the church may use the terms interchangeably on occasion, the NCW insists on the exclusive use of presbyter and NOT priest. This is because Kiko teaches that the Mass is not a Sacrifice. His exclusion of the word "priest" is the obvious manifestation of his screwed up theology.

      "Presbyter" is less specific. Traditionally it simply meant "ancient" or "elder". And in the early days of the church as presbyter was not always a "sacerdos", a priest. This is why the Congregation for Divine Worship insisted on the use of the word "priest" in the ordination rite:

      Prominent among the problems is the decision of the translators to break with common Catholic usage and translate the Latin "presbyteri" into English not with "priests" but with "presbyters". This cannot meet with the Holy See's consent since it risks being misunderstood by the people and represents an unacceptable theological tendency. In particular it constitutes a retreat from a term that carries a sense of sacrality, that carries with it the history of the development of the faith in favor of a term which does not.

      Letter from the Congregation for Divine Worship to the president of the NCCB on the defects of the Ordination Rite, Prot. 760/96/L, 761/96/L, 20 September 1997

      You may also want to study up on the relationship between the terms as found in the Catholic Encyclopedia here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12406a.htm

      As an aside, this "blindly following Tim Rohr" bull crap dished up by the Dianas is the usual uneducated kneejerk response and another testament to what we do not want our church to be. As anyone can see on this blog, I posit NOTHING of an official nature without giving you the AUTHENTIC source from the Magisterium. For the record, the pope speaking on his own is NOT "the magisterium." And his use of the two terms does not negate the CDF's position.

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    2. Here is an excerpt from the Catholic Encyclopedia demonstrating the historic difference between presbyter and priest:

      actually were presbyteri who were not priests, is seen from canons 43-47 of Hippolytus (cf. Duchesne, "Origines du culte chretien", append.), which show that some of those who had confessed the Faith before the tribunals were admitted into the presbyterium without ordination.

      Thus we see why Kiko demands the exclusive use of the word presbyter. He wants to return the church to his first century idea of it where "elders", and not necessary priests ran things. This is critical to his agenda to break down the parish-based church into his small (and controllable) communities. The only thing holding him back is the pesky requirement that only an ordained priest may celebrate a valid eucharist.

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    3. Don't lose this one, Tim. Excellent.

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    4. @11:55...looney tune...have you had lunch? You blood sugar must be down. The first line of your quotationof Pope Francis: “Priests like this cannot be improvised: they are forged through the valuable formative work of the Seminary, and Ordination consecrates them forever as men of God and servants of His people”. ....note the emphasis on being forged in the seminary....and PIUS is recorded saying the presbyters can be trained in the communities and ordained in five years and off to convert China....I just don't know what to think. Whew. You really stepped into that one.

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    5. 3:44 PM..I was just quoting what Diana said! Your name calling is uncalled for. Guess it is time to tune out to everything! Guess you folks can hash it out....over and out!

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    6. 4:19 PM. Relax and come on back. I appreciate your observation. However, I often make the same mistake 3:44 PM made when people copy and past here from the Dianas blog. Sometimes it doesn't appear to be a copy and paste but an actual comment. 3:44 made an honest mistake. I'm sure he/she will admit that. There are rather large challenges communicating on a blog where everything happens fast and mostly anonymously.

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    7. Yes...my error, I think. My point is that Lady Di uses the quote of Pope Francis to prove he uses the word presbyter and completely misses the other part of the quote where he speaks of formation in real seminaries, while Pius is foretelling of no seminary 5 year quickie priests. Sorry for confusion. (Now I'm confused!) ;)

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    8. Perhaps, for starters, the confusion could be alleviated if we use our names instead of remaining anonymous.

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    9. Jose M. Yes...you are correct...unfortunately on a small island, if I did, I would need bodyguards. And there is a shortage right now. They all srrm to be gainfully employed.

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    10. I live on the same small island. I stand by what I submit. Placing your name to your comments would lend a greater credence. It also allows for pause before pressing that send button as accountability is in order.

      I suggest all those who are compelled to share or comment do so with their names. It may be humbling at first, and there may be some initial fear. However, what is there to fear from speaking truth to power when it comes to our faith?

      Those in Concerned Catholics for Guam risked their reputations on this small island to seek the truth, it's time that more do as well. As long as comments remain faceless, they also remain uninspiring.

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    11. Mary Lou Garcia-PeredaDecember 17, 2014 at 2:28 PM

      Anonymous (December 16, 2014 at 8:09 PM), the assertion made by Jose M. at 7:11 PM that "confusion can be alleviated if we use our names instead of remaining anonymous" can be modified as I have suggested in the past. If you are unwilling to use your real name, then use a pseudonym — maybe your Confirmation patron saint or a saint to whom you have a special devotion. The endless stream of comments by "Anonymous" not only makes it really difficult to determine who said what, but also indicates an unwillingness to take ownership/responsibility for what is posted.

      Per Jose's comment at 10:36 PM, I also live on the "same small island" as you. I have been active on this blog since last year and have threatened by name on "The Dianas" blog by "Manny Ayuyu," "El Camino" and other "Anonymous" Kikos/Kikobots for daring to express myself. I recently took a break when my physical, mental and psychological well-being suffered from all the negativity and threats. By the Grace of God, I am back for the long haul. As I have said before, I am fighting to prevent the parishes in our Archdiocese from falling into the control of the NCW for the sake of future generations, particularly for my grandchildren and their peers.

      Ever since the formation of the Concerned Catholics of Guam I noticed that a few more people posted comments using names; I praise and thank God for their courage! I pray that you and others will make the choice to come out from the Veil of Anonymity — CHOOSE the name of a saint if you do not want to reveal your true identity.

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    12. Thank you very much Mary Lou for this heartfelt witnessing.

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  2. It is so true, the fact that NCW calls their priests and bishops by their first name already demonstrates a departure from the authentic understanding of priests in the universal church.
    It also demonstrates a kind of 'false' control of itinerants over communities.

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  3. When Deacon Eddie Borja+ was alive, somebody referred to him as a "presbyter" of a community during a chat with me. I

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  4. Diana made a point there rather kneejerk.hmmm she made a point Tim. Sorry

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    1. Yes, the Dianas are good at making points that have no point and no basis other than the point they want to make.

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  5. Marilu Diaz MartinezDecember 17, 2014 at 2:16 AM

    As Catholics and Christians we believe that "we are brothers and sisters" (in Christ) but, any individual of average intellect understands that phrase not to mean that we are "brothers and sisters" as siblings are to each other -- we all know and understand semantics and how words and phrases are meant IN CONTEXT and the relationships and connotative meanings of words depending on how they are used.

    Do these kikos simply believe their ncw followers to be gullible and easily fooled into believing anything the kikos say; or do the kikos think their followers are "simple simons" who easily accept any twisted references their kikos feed them to convince their ncw followers of their Simon-kiko-says teachings? What mega insult and disrespect the Kikos have of their ncw followers' intelligence!

    ... but what is more laughable than appalling to the faithful not in the ncw is how the kikos actually believe they can use their deceitful modus operendi on us, as well. NOT!

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