Tuesday, January 20, 2015

THE NEO PLUG. CATHEDRAL. JAN 17. 6PM MASS

From the Cathedral's Saturday 6p Mass, before the Final Blessing.




Or use this link:
https://soundcloud.com/undecoverneo/neocatechumenal-ad-cathedral-20150117-6pm

Featured comment:


  1. This is bunch of crap Gabe and no offense to your vocation, but you're full of hypocrisy. I remember you growing up and you were hardly an active parishioner of the Agana Cathedral - if you were one at all. Clearly, you're not only confused but disillusioned. Instead you were an active member of the AGANA (NEO) COMMUNITY at the Agana Cathedral, not an active member of the parish. And your Pius/European accent -- PLEASE GET REAL! We walked together Gabe and I'm still proud of your vocation, but please don't mislead people. Just be true to yourself and just by listening to this - you aren't being you. You know it. Remember when we went to play the COLOR GAME after the Archbishop scolded our community about gambling several years ago? Just be true Gabe. Be true. I'll see you this weekend. Don't worry too much about this anonymous comment. I couldn't stand being close to you but yet you would mislead people. That's what's getting to me.

60 comments:

  1. Is this seminarian Father Lius Camacho's brother? I don't think he knows what God is all about! I do believe that the seminary is an escape route for him. Sorry just my opinion!

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  2. Scary, this chap is going to be a priest huh?....The usual stuff - The Church had nothing for me; ... "I don't need to be good". That doesn't bode well.

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  3. Sorry, I just couldn't take it anymore. Had to stop the recorded "testimony" after 3.5 minutes. Doesn't this belong in a confessional and not BEFORE the final blessing or any other area? Aside from Confession (Act of Contrition), he should join a group that specializes in testimonials. It should not be part of the Liturgy. Just takes away from what should have been deep in our minds, THE HOMILY and THE EUCHARISTIC CELEBRATION.

    Now I know why something in me keeps saying NOT to attend the Cathedral Mass until it is "fixed". Monsignor David?, aren't you in charge?...IF SO, THEN FIX THIS ATROCITY AND STOP MAKING A MOCKERY OF OUR LITURGICAL CELEBRATION!

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    1. Don't expect monsignor david to fix anything....he is part of the problem...

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    2. @ Anonymous at 5:10 PM: I too went scrambling for the off button. This belongs in the confessional and not for everyone else to hear. That is how they control you. They know your weaknesses and they use it to their advantage. Then they tell you that you should be this, you should be that! And they all listen. GOD help your sheep to hear Your voice and open their eyes to see the TRUTH! I ask this in Jesus name, Amen.

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    3. I am a convert to Catholicism 30+ years ago. I came from a Southern Baptist background. Even as a child I hated the altar calls for sinners to come up front to Jesus which many of them did sobbing and crying. One of the many things I liked immediately about becoming Catholic was the quiet dignity of the mass. When the NCW first started their "testimonies" and "invitations" I squirmed with discomfort because it was like being back in the Southern Baptist church again. I want my dignified Church back.

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    4. You are and all welcome to attend our Mass at Our Lady of the Blessed Sacrament Church in Agana Heights.

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    5. I published your comment but I dead you may have just made your church the next target.

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  4. So annoying. What a waste of oxygen.
    Nothing worth listening to and made no sense at all.
    God does nothing for him, but Jesus Christ does? Hmmm....hear of the Trinity?

    Next time Tim, put 'for entertainment purposes' on the description.

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  5. It's a cult I tell you! A cult that brainwashes you from people that have no interest in you but themselves and your money! Even the other Christian churches on Guam that are not Catholic don't make you go up in front of the congregation to share your faults. Only God the Father knows them and all you have to do is seek Him and make Him first in your life. Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

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  6. Same disturbing stories (We don't want to know)...blame games (boohoo my Dad was too strict). .. same intonation and delivery (nearly yelling the WHOLE TIME). ..presbyter-In-training. We are doomed!

    Mr. And Mrs. Camacho, with all due respect, what did you do to your children?

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    1. Like Father Luis said, the marriage was in shambles, so they probably ignored the kids!

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    2. Yes, yelling! Yelling is their main tool of intimidation. That is how they perform mental rape through your ear on your brain! All their catechists yell and yell at their catechesis seances. They keep yelling at you face to face until you lose your consciousness, then they act quickly hijacking your soul. This is how they make you a slave of the neo. I have seen neo gatherings where everyone has an idiotic smile on their faces. They feel like they were enchanted but in fact they were manipulated, yelled at and hypnotized into voluntary slavery!

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    3. Camacho's dysfunctional family.

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    4. Luis camacho stated that the marriage of his parents was problematic. observing how the children turned out this family obviously lacked the essence of a good catholic family upbringing. Pathetic the camacho family joined a cult in the hope of discovering their happiness in life. Dysfunction attracts dysfunction.

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    5. That's not yelling. That is PROCLAIMING!!!! The most accomplished yeller is Edwin the billy goat. Shouting, but shouting!!!

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  7. Frankly, any young man who speaks like this, after five years of priestly formation in a catholic seminary is certainly not ready for ordination. The young man shows a complete lack of theological and spiritual knowledge, little human formation, and quite honestly unfit for the catholic priesthood in today's church.

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  8. We do need the exact identity of this person to inform the Hon. Visitors.

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  9. If this is an individual who has been in the seminary five years and speaks like this we are all in trouble.

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  10. So here is part of the interview of Father Luis Camacho: BRINK OF A DIVORCE

    Q: Were you always active in Church? Who were responsible for making sure the Church was a part of your life? How was your faith transmitted?

    LC: Yes. My parents. My dad made sure we went to Confraternity of Christian Doctrine (CCD), got our sacraments, went to Mass on Sunday and all that stuff. I learned my basic prayers from my mom. Well, whatever faith I may possibly have I think was transmitted by means of some weak instruments — my parents. I think they would agree with me in saying that in my early childhood, instead of transmitting faith all they transmitted were the basic truths of faith, but that was all. And in fact, that was not enough for them either because when I was 11, or so, they were on the brink of divorce. I would say that it wasn’t until they began an experience in our parish — the Agana Cathedral — and started “walking” — as they say — in the NeoCatechumenal Way, that, faith began to appear. It was seeing them stay together, stay married, despite them still fighting and everything, that I believe that some amount of faith was transmitted. It really wasn’t them telling me anything — it was seeing the power of the resurrection of Jesus Christ in the lives of my parents who time and time again were able to reconcile and remain married even until today.

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  11. I was truly speechless for a little while after listening to that "whatever it is" they do. I repeat something I said a while back, this really reminds me of the Gestalt psycho-babble of the 60s and 70s. The original famous phrase of Gestalt psychologist Kurt Koffka, "The whole is other than the sum of the parts" Does the following sound a little familiar?
    From their website:
    Once we are fully present in the here and now, we are able to take responsibility for our responses and actions with more excitement, energy and courage to live life directly. Although Gestalt does not directly address the concept of spirituality, what emerges out of the therapy is increased compassion, humility and respect. The “whole” (the Gestalt) of one’s existence includes in any given moment the impact and exchange of impact with all others in one’s surroundings. There are “no innocent bystanders” in Gestalt. Responsibility is a natural price of existence rather than a perceived social burden.

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  12. The non neos should also have the same priveleges as the neo in presenting testimonies so we can also inform the parishioners about how the NCW screw our lives up.

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    1. Hey, that's a darn good suggestion! Could we (non-neos) ask for equal time? Give us the same opportunity in church (but not during homily time, and not at the pulpit though) to express how much harm our Church, our families, and our relatives have been experiencing with the NCW, just as they (the neos) are given time to tell us how much good the Neo has been giving them. Fair is fair, right? How about it? I'm sure in the spirit of fairness, they can't say "no" - or would they??? JUST A JOKE, 'CUZ I KNOW IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN! Joy, joy, joy!!

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    2. Anon at 10:42 PM, you are right. The Neos don't understand the spirit of fairness. Besides, they don't want to hear our testimonies because they are "better" than us (in their minds).

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  13. There is an amazing testimony by Catalina Rivas "LIVING the Holy Mass" taught to her by Jesus and Mary. Many Catholics may benefit from it.

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  14. sorry, couldn't finish this ''test''i ''mony''. Rubbish, seems he blames God for ''his'' actions in life. No worries now he's living a perfect NEO zombie life.
    In God I Trust.

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  15. That's the hook, Jesus loves you just the way you are. End stop. Now go feel better about yourself. We are all sinners but God expects us resolve not to sin anymore, not simply accept that fact. You're supposed to feel bad when you sin! It's not okay to be a sinner. That's why we have the sacrament of reconciliation.

    And how can you love someone you hate. There's distorted understanding of love in this testimony. There is a vast difference between tolerating someone you hate and loving them in the same sense that God loves his creation. Your ideology is flawed.

    What's worse is that you attribute your change in your life perspective to the Way. Yet you make no actual connection between what specific attributes of the Way that brought you to this conclusion. Is it the dancing? The fresh bread? The celebration in an unconsecrated place? The small communities that make you feel safer? The scrutinies?

    No. I believe your lack of faith as a child is the failure of your parents, God parents, and others Catholics around you who stood by and did nothing. I also firmly believe that Apuron must share in the guilt because he failed to shepard this archdiocese and take the necessary steps to prevent this. In fact, I believe he intentionally sat on his hands for all these years to sow the crops for Kiko's harvest.

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  16. Sickening beyond words. But I admire the person who made the recording so clearly to share with readers. Readers need to hear the crap that comes from these poor pathetic individuals who have really lost their self respect in life. No self respecting acting catholic speaks like this seminarian.

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  17. I want to affirm this young man's vocation to the Neocatechumenal Way's priesthood which is a different kind of priesthood than a Diocesan priesthood. I also pray for him to know himself and to remain in the light, no longer a shadow of anyone. Gabriel Camacho, I'm praying for you. I hope you fall in love with Jesus. Fall in love with Jesus over and over again and again. Be like St. John, the beloved. Run to Jesus and visit him everyday.

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  18. who is paying for this guy in the seminary? what a profound waste of money!
    i always knew that priests or religious had some level of education in divinity and theology. they are learned individuals who explain, guide and encourage us. they are the walking encyclopedias of our faith. their ministry is conducted with music, meditation and prayer.

    this guy sounds like he takes his lessons from Cliff's notes, pamphlets or sound bytes.
    prayers!!! we have prayers like the Act of Contrition that ask forgiveness, we have the Apostle's Creed professing our commitment to the 'communion of saints.'

    when we are experience the sacraments, baptism, penance, communion, confirmation these are gifts. baptism we get as babies, we're given to the community to welcome, care for and guide. penance and communion we continue to grow in the love of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Again in the community. we practice the acts of mercy.

    this guy goes on about going to Mass all the time as a young person. what were you doing day-dreaming? how do you attend, say Good Friday mass and completely miss the Passion? how did he go to Easter Sunday mass and not renew his vows against Satan? Anytime after 10 or 11 years old is on him not to be mindful. don't blame your parents and stop whining!

    if he went to CCD, didn't he ask the teacher or the lay person? They give books! is he illiterate TOO?

    blaming for the sake of abdicating responsibility. so easy and convenient. Did he get up and testify that?

    that neo cult is like an etch-a-sketch. you sin then shake it up and poof its gone.

    God loves you just the way you are. but we have free will to be better, to share His love and goodness. He wants that for us.

    buncha dopey kool-aid drinking dummies.

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    1. I seriously hope we're not paying for his education. If we are let me be the first to say so eloquently "we're screwed."

      You're right - we have different avenues in which we can grow stronger in a faith in which most of us had chosen for us. I recall either a theology or Confirmation class in which the presenter said that we had our faith chosen for us as infants through baptism, but it becomes the responsibility of our parents, relatives, priests, and eventually ourselves to help grow this faith stronger. That way by the time Confirmation comes along, we can confirm our belief in this faith as adults (or young adults). This guy missed the mark. Everyone in that circle failed.

      What disturbs me is the fact this guy will eventually become a priest. He will be (if AAA continues this fiasco) assigned as a parish pastor. He will be ministering over Confirmation Masses, Baptism, and Confessions. He will be counseling those who are at a crossroad in their faith. What will he say to them? What would be his response? How would he handle it?

      "Jesus loves you the way you are" is a concept we all understood as children and a one size fits all message.

      The seminary should be the place where he is trained to take on these issues. And if his faith, after 5 years at RMS, is still at the infancy stage in which only the NCW can save you, then we my fellow Catholics are terribly, terribly screwed.

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  19. Guess people find their connections to God in their own way.

    But the issue at hand isn't whatever he testified, I think it's the time and place this testimony occurs that is disturbing. Well for me.

    Sure, for some it's crazy - how can a guy with thoughts and ideas such as this actually be a seminarian, well that's a whole different issue alltogether.

    Focus on what's really at the heart of this argument. There are testimonies such as this that permeate through our Masses and allowed by our pastors with blatent disregard for the norms outlined by various Church governing bodies. It's downright stupid and unfair that only a select group of people can go up to the ambo and share whatever it is they want to share so long as the final message is to invite us to "joy".

    Thanks, but no thanks.

    Does this happen in every archdiocese? How about next Sunday, can I go up and talk about my faith journey for 6 minutes of your time? If you were to ask your parish priests this question, what are the odds they'll give you a puzzled expression? Probably shoot you down? Chuckle in your face? If you do ask, bring up Sunday's Invitation to Joy, and watch them scramble for an answer.

    And what about the Mass? Would it still be Mass if someone decided to interrupt with their life story? Do they take into account thee are children in the audience? Hey, if you're going to take advantage of my attention, I would appreciate it that you be prepared instead of standing there spewing whatever the heck comes to mind and attribute it to the Holy Spirit (seriously I'm sure even the Pope writes down/rehearses his homily before standing in front of crowds in St. Peter's Square).

    Look, if you find your connection to God through the NCW, and it works for you, well congrats. But to force (yes, force, since the NCW testimonies ALL happen during Sunday Mass and not after the Final Blessing so those who don't want to listen can get the heck out to the parking lot ASAP) us to listen to you list your life's mistakes and sins isn't helping.

    We are all sinners. But that's why Catholics have this awesome sacrament for us to confess our sins and seek repentence. Its called confession.

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  20. If this is the caliber of priest coming from our NCW run Seminary then we are in major trouble. Please Catholics don't be silent on these issues within our Church. You will all start singing Kiko's songs and dancing around the table like a Gypsy!!!!

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  21. Joy comes in the morning. That is the correct interpretation of the invitation to Joy. Thank God that you get to experience another day in your life and say the Serenity Prayer: "Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

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  22. This is bunch of crap Gabe and no offense to your vocation, but you're full of hypocrisy. I remember you growing up and you were hardly an active parishioner of the Agana Cathedral - if you were one at all. Clearly, you're not only confused but disillusioned. Instead you were an active member of the AGANA (NEO) COMMUNITY at the Agana Cathedral, not an active member of the parish. And your Pius/European accent -- PLEASE GET REAL! We walked together Gabe and I'm still proud of your vocation, but please don't mislead people. Just be true to yourself and just by listening to this - you aren't being you. You know it. Remember when we went to play the COLOR GAME after the Archbishop scolded our community about gambling several years ago? Just be true Gabe. Be true. I'll see you this weekend. Don't worry too much about this anonymous comment. I couldn't stand being close to you but yet you would mislead people. That's what's getting to me.

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  23. Sounds more like a rant than a testimony. But then we can say his rant is testimony to what we've
    been saying all along that the RMS spits out half - baked priests. I shudder to think that they are in our community. As Tim has suggested before, parents should take charge of their children's faith formation and make sure the Kikobirds stay away from them.

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  24. "Taking advantage of a number of women" is worn like a badge of honor by many of these seminarians. I've heard many of them admit this. One cannot jump from intimacy to the seminary overnight. This situation is going to lead to many problems in the future. Guaranteed. Screening please. Yes, God in His Great Mercy loves you...but you may not be ready for priesthood on the fast track. Someone stop this, please.

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    1. Yup, I took note of how it sounded more like glamorizing and romanticizing their escapades. It's sends mixed messages to people, and I can see the youth interpret his story to mean that it's okay to do all those "bad things" because God will still love you. Hey, you can even become a priest! They do not mention the part where sin hurts God and people need to be truly remorsefull and repent to get back to God's grace. It just shows that they really don't get it.


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    2. Sound familiar? Jesus loves you just the way you are"?http://www.antyk.org.pl/wiara/neokatechumenat/inside.htm

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  25. Dear Anonymous January 21, 2015 at 1:05 PM. Thank you for the link. I read it and one thing stuck out at me as being the "essence" of the NCW. That is to say, they self-recognize they are a sewer. As one catechist has said, "you must go down into the sewers in order to rise up again with Christ". Our church teaches otherwise, we are saved by God's love, not a crawl through the sewers of a cult.

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    1. Kiko has a catechesis about "mud" that will be smeared upon members like the blind man in John 9. He's wrong. Read why here.

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    2. Thank you Chuck!

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    3. Thank you Chuck, it is an enlightened view that needs to be propagated among the NCW newcomers to start discerning what the cult is really all about and the skewed view of our faith Kiko is promoting.

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  26. wow. so touching.

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  27. When did Gabriel Camacho join "the Way"? How long ago? I understand that he's in the 3rd Agana community, so presumably, he joined when that community started. Anyway, I need to know. Thanks.

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    1. Could be when the 3rd community started, but sometimes when the communities dwindle because of dropouts, members are merged with another.

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    2. Typical neo mumbo jumbo, blame my parents, talk bad about them, ever try paying attention in mass? I'd be ashamed if these were my sons. Either of you ever here of the fourth commandment? For all the bible reflections you do, ever read St. Paul's writings concerning father and mother? Gee, what great examples you are. Great examples of the kaka machine.

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    3. Anon 12:41AM, I understand Gabe's parents were sitting front and center, looking on with pride. I guess airing your dirty laundry is a badge of honor for people in the highly organized support group called NCW.

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    4. Yes, dirty laundry....and at Mass. That's what is sick about it.

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    5. Hey Chuuk. The third community of Agana has been walking for at least a decade. I'm not sure if Gabe is a part of the first group because like a previous commenter said communities that get smaller merge with one another so some people in a community may have walked longer than others. Presumably since his parents are in the 1st community of Agana he was made to go to the catechises when he was 13 years old when you're allowed to join your own community so if you subtract his current age from 13 you could get how long he's been walking. Hope this helps!

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  28. Not sure who he was trying to convince ..himself or the rest of us. For someone who is studying to be a priest, he wasn't able to express himself outside of the neo script. Sounds like all the other neo testimony...how sad.

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  29. WTH is a "Community" within a Parish? Are you judged and sorted by how much money you give to the NEO's or how much sorrow you have for yourself?
    Last I heard, a parish was the whole community/village!
    Wake up Parishes, we are being dismantled; they are destroying the whole families within our communities!

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    1. Hear, hear, Anon 2:49 AM!

      Has anyone read the foreword on the Chamorro version of the Roman Missal? It talks about how the Church has historically been the center of each village's activities. It's a good reminder of how deeply interwoven our church is with our customs and traditions.

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  30. At last weeks Mass at St Anthony Fr. Mel(?) allowed a speaker after his homily and before the recitation of the Nicene Creed. I did not have a recorder at the time but this speaker had a more composed delivery than Gabriels'.

    What struck me because this really is the first i've listened to the invitation is that the speaker implores those who are going through depression, contemplating suicide, going through a divorce, hardships, etc, or know someone going through it, to attend.

    I believe all clergy should make this same kind of offer at some part of the Mass or in the village bulletins to bring those who are struggling with their lives towards the attention of a Priest who can give proper spiritual guidance and direct resources to these individuals who would otherwise feel alone with their struggles.

    The island is becoming more secularized and thanks to AAA we have lost Catholics to other religions and groups such as the NCW. -Who have lately been advising their members to hold their own word celebration on Saturday night if no priest is available rather than just say, "go to mass at a parish".

    If we thought the Visitors would bring a reprieve, it looks like it brought the opposite. This phony evangelization is in full force. If you know someone who is going through some hardship please bring them to a RC Priest or ask your Priest to reach out to them.

    ~God help us all~

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    1. I think we have competent and caring members of the Faithful who would be more than happy to help the priest and our brothers and sisters in need find the proper professional(s) to assist them. We just need to network and make this a part of our works of mercy.

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    2. As per Catholics United: it is a shame if not a crime that priests are forced by their superiors to violate the liturgical books.

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    3. "...the speaker implores those who are going through depression, contemplating suicide, going through a divorce, hardships, etc, or know someone going through it, to attend."

      This is what bothers me! I know of people who do go to their priests (neo) to seek marital/relationship or life problems only to be "invited" to attend a catechesis. These priests take advantage of these people when they are at their lowest and most vulnerable, and slowly pull them into the Way. Next thing you know, we have all these testimonies of how the Way "saved my marriage" or "saved me from committing suicide". Can you priests be true priests and not "salesman" trying to sell your "Way" to the vulnerable? I know of one who has gone as far as "inviting" new RCIA candidates to attend the catechesis. Then they get hooked. So sad to see how desperate these priests have gotten.

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  31. A support group for ex NCW members and those wanting to leave the NCW would be beneficial also. There is has to be some psychological damage when belonging to such a cult and feeling of disorientation upon leaving. They need to be reached out to. For obvious reasons probably not within the church right now. We don't need anymore RC Priests facing a painful closure to their assignments.

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  32. after listening and hearing that he's been in the seminary for 5years.....sorry to say but he needs an additional 25 more years...if he is going to be a priest. Fr Eric!...teach them how to speak in public...specially about our Faith! He definitely needs help.

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