Tuesday, January 7, 2014

ANOTHER COMMENT REPOSTED

The original comment can be found here.


Simple question...since the emphasis of the Neo is to provide priests for missionary service, and since the Vatican has already stated that this missionary service is valuable and necessary, maybe we should send Adrian and Tony on the same mission to China?



Seriously. This service is necessary, and our top leadership in Agana is unique in that our Archbishop is the only bishop in the world who actually walks in the Way, and has surrounded himself with Neocats. Every priest and mission family needs spiritual guidance from a bishop. So maybe Rome should create something akin to an eparchy and send Tony to China to be in charge of the 10,000 priests Kiko has promised to give to the Church to invade secular China. He can keep his infrastructure intact, and Adrian and David can also relocate to China.

Then Rome can find a real leader for our Archdiocese. You may laugh but it seems to make a lot of sense from where I sit.

Any thoughts?

NOTE: There was a suggestion that Fr. Paul serve as the interim diocesan administrator until a new bishop is appointed. 

15 comments:

  1. http://www.ucanews.com/news/problems-with-the-neocatechumenal-way/4932

    Interesting reading.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Janet B - MangilaoJanuary 7, 2014 at 3:05 PM

      For those who don't like to open new pages, below is the article which was listed above. It sounds very familiar, and was written about 3 years ago. Perhaps this is why the NCW is so scared on Guam. If not for the blind support of our Archbishop would they be thrown out of Guam just like they were in Japan?

      "Neo-cats go off on their own way

      A Japanese pastor joins the debate with a personal view of the Catholic lay movement

      Eijiro Suwa
      Japan
      February 17, 2011

      The Neocatechumenal Way's operations in Japan came under the spotlight recently when several of the country's bishops expressed misgivings about the movement and complained that it has sometimes been a divisive force in their Church.

      Here, an Osaka archdiocesan priest, Father Eijiro Suwa, 63, the pastor at Enokuchi parish in Kochi prefecture, in Takamatsu diocese, about 600km southwest of Tokyo, gives a personal account of the "Way" from his experience.

      This is an edited version of Father Suwas' comments.

      In order to serve the needs of the “Way”, their priests are ordained as “diocesan priests”, but they do not understand what it means to engage in pastoral evangelization in obedience to their bishop. They repeatedly proclaim, “We have been missioned by the Vatican”, and at meetings of the priests of the diocese they say to the Bishop’s face, “We obey the Vatican.”

      Are they not able to understand the policy of the diocese regarding “Collaborative Ministry”? At gatherings of the priests of the diocese they say, “That policy has nothing to do with us.” It is not an exaggeration to say that the Diocese of Takamatsu is being used by the “Way”

      When it came time for First Communion in the parish, a priest of the “Way” asked that he be allowed to give First Communion to the children of the members of the “Way”.

      When a member of the “Way” died, they did not notify the pastor of the parish until the day after the funeral, which they had conducted on their own.

      There was one additional priest “in charge” of Enoguchi Parish. Who named him to that post? In some secret way a priest of the “Way” had been named to look after the liturgy and gatherings of the “Way” in that parish. In order to augment the following of the “Way” many meetings and events are planned and carried out in secret.

      REDEMPTORIS SEMINARY

      At the present time the Takamatsu Diocesan International Redemptoris Mater Seminary has been closed in the diocese and has moved to Rome as “Redemptoris Mater Seminary for Japan”.

      At the time of the foundation of the seminary, since the process followed was neither legally nor financially sound, and since the wishes of the people of the diocese were not followed, many problems arose. The seminary was established in the Diocese of Takamatsu under the jurisdiction of its Bishop, but it was evident that it was independent of the diocese and all matters regarding formation and administration were handled by the “Way”.

      They were supported by donations, but since there was no report to the diocese with regard to the accounts and/or the formation being provided, there was no transparency in these matters. The Bishop was not even introduced to the new candidates who presented themselves each year.

      Many of the faithful of the diocese have felt keenly the suffering of the diocese for more than 20 years. However, the pain of the people of the diocese and the untiring direction of the Bishop was no more than static in their ears. Their consciousness was “We are being persecuted.”

      "

      Part Two to Follow

      Delete
    2. Janet B - MangilaoJanuary 7, 2014 at 3:06 PM

      Here is part two of the article...

      MISSIONARY FAMILIES

      There were two missionary families from Italy assigned to Enoguchi Parish. They are very good people.

      Their mission was to minister to and help the priests of the “Way”. They said that they were missioned by the Vatican to be completely submissive to them. They were friendly with the people of Enoguchi Parish, but when the priest of the “Way” no longer came to the parish and because of difficulties with the Japanese language, it became difficult for them to grasp their mission.

      LITURGIES

      The members of the “Way” celebrate a special Mass according to their own catechesis that is not part of the liturgical guidelines of the Bishops’ Conference of Japan.

      The same is true of the liturgy for Holy Week. They celebrate liturgies that ignore the sensibility of the Japanese people and are considered to be bizarre (funerals).

      There is also the problem of the collection during the Mass. It does not become part of the parish finances and its use is unclear.

      The Bishop - out of respect for the members of the “Way” - tried to deal with this issue quietly without making public statements. However, the members of the “Way” did not grasp the Bishop’s intention and continued to ignore him. Each time an issue came up the emphatic answer was “We obey the Vatican.”

      In seeking unity in our diocese our Bishop appealed to the Vatican time and again but each time it was felt that the true state of affairs was not understood in Rome.




      JA13320.1641
      Related reports "

      Anybody see any similarities?

      Delete
    3. Janet B - MangilaoJanuary 7, 2014 at 3:18 PM

      And more glowing news from our neighbors to the north, this article from the Catholic News Service. Funny thought...our own U Matuna subscribes to CNS for our news feeds weekly, but they don't seem to run these articles. Maybe that's because Tony, our shepherd, is the publisher!

      Archbishop Seeks Help With Neocatechumenal Way 'Problems'
      CatholicNews - JANUARY 30, 2011, Vol 61, No 2 E-mail Print
      User Rating: / 1
      PoorBest
      TOKYO – The president of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of Japan (CBCJ) has called for the cooperation of priests and laypeople to confront “problems” with the Neocatechumenal Way, which he said has had a negative effect in the country.

      “In those places touched by the Neocatechumenal Way, there has been rampant confusion, conflict, division and chaos,” Archbishop Leo Jun Ikenaga of Osaka said in a statement published in Katorikku Shimbun, the Catholic Weekly of Japan, on Jan 12. His statement was reported by the Asian Church news agency, UCA News.

      “In Japan, the net effect has been negative,” Archbishop Ikenaga said in his statement. “We bishops, in light of our apostolic pastoral responsibility, could not ignore the damage.”

      Pope Benedict XVI refused a December request from four Japanese bishops, including Archbishop Ikenaga, to suspend the Neocatechumenal Way for five years.

      Archbishop Ikenaga’s statement, dated Dec 20, suggests that the bishops are unwilling to let the matter rest there.

      “Until now, the CBCJ has engaged with both the Holy See and the Neocatechumenal Way. But now the time has come to gain the participation of the laypeople of Japan,” Archbishop Ikenaga wrote in the statement.

      He said the pope plans to send an envoy to Japan soon. He said the bishops hope those who have come into personal contact with the Neocatechumenal Way will relate their experiences to the pope’s envoy.

      “The fact is, it’s very difficult for the real state of affairs to be conveyed to a place as far away as Rome,” he wrote.

      “We hope that they [the Neocatechumenal Way] will take a hard look at why things haven’t worked out here so far and, for the first time, help us root out the cause of the problems, so that we can find the path to a solution.”

      The Neocatechumenal Way was set up in Japan around 1970 in the Diocese of Hiroshima. In 1990, the affiliated Redemptoris Mater seminary was built in Takamatsu diocese, which has the smallest number of resident Catholics of any Japanese diocese. - CNS

      Delete
    4. Janet B - MangilaoJanuary 7, 2014 at 3:24 PM

      And maybe you would like to see what another diocese in Japan has to say about the "new evangelization"...posted below from http://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=17613 :

      Japan: archbishop calls for pause in Neocatechumenal activity
      Posted: Monday, February 7, 2011 11:17 pm
      Email Print

      Japan: archbishop calls for pause in Neocatechumenal activity | Neocatechumenal movement, Japan, Most Rev Peter Takeo Okada, Archbishop of Tokyo

      Archbishop Peter Takeo Okada
      The Neocatechumenal movement should halt their activities in Japan "for a while" in order to reflect and prepare the ground for a new dialogue with the Japanese Church.

      This is the advice given by Most Rev Peter Takeo Okada, Archbishop of Tokyo, in a message published on Friday. Archbishop Okada states that for 20 years, the bishops have had to deal with problems arising from the presence of the Neocatechumenal Way in Japan. He stresses that the problems created by the Neocatechumenal movement in Japan have saddened him, particularly in seeing the "division, conflict and chaos that the movement has brought among us."

      The statement by Mgr Okada come less than a month after a meeting at the Vatican between some Japanese bishops, Neocatechumenal representatives, members of the Roman Curia and the Pope.

      At that time, the Secretary of State opposed the decision of the Japanese Bishops' Conference to impose a five year ban on the activities of Neocatechumenates. The meeting suggested some steps for greater dialogue between Neocatechumenal members and the bishops, leaving the pastors of each diocese to decide how to integrate them into the Church's mission.

      Archbishop Okada stressed that what he says is not a decision for the entire bishops' conference, but only for his diocese.

      In his message, the Archbishop calls for Neocatechumenals to reflect on the emergence of an evangelization "more suited to the needs of the population of Japan." Several prelates accuse the Way of operating in mission countries without a thorough inculturation. Neocatechumenals members often claim the pastors of the Church in Japan concentrate on practising dialogue rather than on announcing the Gospel.

      Archbishop Okada suggests that members of the Way rethink their missionary style, recalling the wounds that plague the country, such as the 30 thousand suicides per year. He suggests Neocatechumenals focus primarily on caring for the sick and disabled. So far their main commitment has been to the new evangelization and catechesis.

      Source: AsiaNews/Japanese Bishops Conference

      Delete
  2. All Redemptoris Mater seminarians are selected by lottery to any of the 87 seminaries in the world and they will be ordained for that diocese. Fr. Emanuele was sent to the first RM seminary in the US in Newark. He didn’t stay in Newark, but was reassigned to Washington, DC, because Cardinal McCarrick, who had been archbishop in Newark, decided he wanted the same RM seminary in DC. So he asked the archbishop of Newark to send 7 men to help found an RM seminary in DC. Fr. Emanuele was assigned to DC, was ordained there, he worked in a parish in Silver Spring, Md., became the cardinal’s secretary, and then worked in a parish in Germantown, Md. He was sent last August to Boston to help form the 18 men at RMS-Boston, who are about a third of the seminarians for Boston.

    3rd segment: The 18 men at RMSB come from nine countries in Europe and Latin America. They use English in the formation house to help them learn the language. The name Redemptoris Mater means “Mother of the Redeemer,” referring to the 30 years Jesus lived in formation in his family. It also refers to John Paul II’s 1987 encyclical.

    Guess the four priests who were recently transferred had their names pulled throughout the lottery system. BINGO anyone!

    ReplyDelete
  3. Given the information from "A Comment Worth Reposting" by Anonymous (January 7, 2014 at 2:57 AM), I think Fr. Paul would make an excellent Interim Diocesan Administrator as a result of experience gained from his time in the private sector.

    I recall a discussion between Pale' Mike and Fr. Paul several years ago on "Why Do Catholics Do That?" in which they contrasted their respective paths to the priesthood. Pale' Mike labeled himself a "Lifer," having entered the seminary and remained on the path until ordination. Fr. Paul mentioned how he had taken a detour before finally being ordained in 2004. He had left the seminary, completed undergraduate/graduate studies and worked in administrative positions in the private sector before returning to the seminary and being ordained. I think that having lived life in the “real world” has given Fr. Paul an advantage when compared to learning about life via textbooks, sheltered behind seminary walls.

    Wouldn't it be ironic if the Archbishop himself faced the "arduous and painful closure" to his ministry that he had promised Fr. Paul only to have Fr. Paul assigned as the Interim Diocesan Administrator?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Henry W - San Miguet/TalofofoJanuary 7, 2014 at 2:25 PM

      When my prima suggested that the Archbishop be assigned to China I loved the idea. I know he can do some good there. Another cousin happens to be very close to the Gofigan family, and I have met Fr Paul on several occasions. When I suggested that he be the administrator, I was being absolutely serious. He has always impressed me with his ability to look at a situation and come up with excellent solutions.
      I loved the homily he gave a few years back to the people on Dec 08 at the Cathedral. If I recall correctly, he also has a degree from Harvard.

      The irony escaped me yesterday when I suggested this solution, but it would truly be a sign that God is watching out for the disadvantaged, the meek, and the masses. Like Pope Francis, Fr Paul wants all people in the Church, not just those in a particular charism or social status.

      So since Janet offered to pray for her beloved Tony, David and Adrian, I will pray for Fr Paul. May he find strength in these trying times, and if the Lord sees him as a fitting candidate, as I certainly do, then may the Holy Spirit direct the Vatican to a similar conclusion.

      Pray-pray-pray!

      Delete
    2. Janet B - MangilaoJanuary 7, 2014 at 5:42 PM

      It has been very quiet lately from the NeoCats. So I decided to learn a little more about their “Way”. Here are some interesting things I found out about them from their own documents. Thanks to the website: http://www.cathud.com/RESOURCES_CATHOLIC/pages_MR/Neocatechumenal_Way_Kiko_Arguello.html . They have quite a bit of info for those willing to spend a little time to check out what all the hubbub is about.
      First, did you know their actual name is Neo KikoCarmen Way! Just kidding, but a priest friend told me it was always good to start with a short joke.

      Did you know that your baptism and sacraments and commandments are inferior to what the Way offers. Page 373 of the Neocatechumante Orientation Guide given to leaders has this quote from Kiko: “Traditional Christianism, with Baptism, First Communion, Sunday Mass, Commandments of God, was not Christianism. It was dirt. We were pre-Christians. (...) God called us now to found a catechumen movement turned towards rebirth (of real Christianism).”
      Are you frightened yet?
      Have any of you even been to a protestant bible thump? These gatherings are meant to teach and attract. At one you may be likely to hear the following teaching: "Man is not saved by good works(...), Jesus Christ did not come to give us a model of life, an example (...). The Holy Spirit doesn't lead us to perfection, to good works (...), Christianism doesn't require anything from us (...). God forgives freely the sins of those who believe that Jesus is the Savior." Does this sound familiar to you converts or those who have been to a St John’s graduation? Well these are actually the words from Kiko and Carmen’s guide. Scared yet?
      There are over eighty paragraphs in Catechism of the Catholic Church teaching that the Mass is a divine Sacrifice:
      CCC 1410: "It is Christ himself, the eternal high priest of the New Covenant who, acting through the ministry of the priests, offers the Eucharistic SACRIFICE. And it is the same Christ, really present under the species of bread and wine, who is the offering of the Eucharistic SACRIFICE. "
      Compare this teaching of the Church with Kiko and Carmen's in their Neocatechumenate Orientation Guide. The Mass is only "the memorial of the Pasch of Jesus, of his passage from death to life", and again: "The notion of sacrifice is a condescension for the pagan mentality (.). At the beginning of the Church, in the theology of the Mass, there was no sacrifice of Jesus, no sacrifice of the Cross, no Calvary, but only a sacrifice of praise." So, if you believe like I do that the Mass is a sacrifice, Kiko rounds us all up into “Pagan” status. But listen to what the one true Church taught us and reaffirmed more than 500 years ago:
      Council of Trent (22nd Session):

      (Canon 1) "If anyone say that in the Mass, a true and real sacrifice is not offered to God (.), let him be anathema"

      (Canon 3) "If anyone says that the sacrifice of the Mass is that only of praise and thanksgiving, or that it is a mere commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the Cross but not a propitiatory one (.) let him be anathema"

      I am finding my readings to be very interesting. I ask any current members of the Neo KikoCarmen Way to correct anything stated herein. Until then, they are just the Neo Cuukoo Way.

      More to follow tomorrow.

      Delete
    3. To Mary Lou and Henry W.
      I have been reading your interventions with great attention and a slight smile.
      Thank you Mary Lou for posting the Japanese issues, you can also research the same items in Korea with similar results.
      I doubt Rome listen to your suggestions, but one can always hope. Father Paul would definitely be a good administrator, part of his post-graduate studies mentioned by Henry are a Master in public administration from Harvard University with a Cum Laude mention.
      Food for thoughts.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous (January 8, 2014 at 4:29 AM), I realize that you think you are reading my “interventions” with great attention BUT may I suggest that you reread the posts and give credit where credit is due …

      1) The posts of the “Japanese issues,” which I myself read with great attention, were done by Janet B-Mangilao, January 7, 2014 at 3:18 PM and at 3:24 PM. For some reason, you have the impression that I posted it — you are mistaken.

      2) I did not make the initial suggestion about Fr. Paul serving as Interim Diocesan Administrator — that was suggested by (surprise!!) “Janet B-Mangilao,” January 6, 2014 at 2:37 PM when she wrote “Thanks Henry…I like the idea of Fr Paul as interim administrator …” in the post “Catholic Extension Society: Response to Comments – and Other Stuff.” The suggestion was noted at the end of this post “Another Comment Reposted” and I was merely agreeing with it, adding the Archbishop’s own words because I saw the irony if it should come to pass.
      BTW: It appears that you have the impression that Janet B-Mangilao and I are the same person — we are NOT. Unlike you, ANONYMOUS (January 8, 2014 at 4:29 AM), I have commented using my name and do not hide my identity. There are a handful of us who use our names — Janet B-Mangilao, Henry W-San Miguet/Talofofo, Maria Rose, James from Tamuning, David in Inarajan, Toni-Barrigada, Adrian C-Maina, David Q, Maria, Adrian, Susan (names I’ve noticed since the New Year began) — and a couple who opt for pseudonyms “Incredulous” and “Average Joe.” Maybe you should drop the "Anonymous" and use your name, too?

      3) While I’ve had to accept the fact that the NCW has influence over the Archbishop with their “suggestions,” I have absolutely NO ILLUSIONS that I have any influence with what Rome will do to deal with the division in our Church in Guam. I’m simply voicing my opinions, concerns and questions.

      In closing, may I suggest, Anonymous (January 8, 2014 at 4:29 AM), that:
      1) you read more carefully — or improve your reading comprehension skills so that
      2) you give can give credit — blame? — where it is due.

      PS-Thank you for confirming that Fr. Paul Gofigan would, in fact, be a fine candidate to serve as Interim Diocesan Administrator, given the credentials you mentioned. Maybe Rome will take note of YOUR contribution as to Fr. Paul’s qualifications.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous (January 8, 2014 at 4:29 AM), I realize that you think you are reading my “interventions with great attention” BUT may I suggest that you reread the posts, pay better attention, and give credit where credit is due…

      1) The posts of the “Japanese issues,” which I myself read with great attention, were done by Janet B-Mangilao, January 7, 2014 at 3:18 PM and at 3:24 PM. For some reason, you have the impression that I posted it — you are mistaken.

      2) I did not make the initial suggestion about Fr. Paul serving as Interim Diocesan Administrator — that was suggested by (surprise!!) Janet B-Mangilao, January 6, 2014 at 2:37 PM when she wrote “Thanks Henry…I like the idea of Fr Paul as interim administrator …” in the post “Catholic Extension Society: Response to Comments – and Other Stuff.” The suggestion was noted at the end of this post “Another Comment Reposted” and I was merely agreeing with it, adding the Archbishop’s own words because I saw the irony if it should come to pass.
      BTW: It appears that you may have the impression that Janet B-Mangilao and I are the same person — we are NOT. Unlike you, ANONYMOUS (January 8, 2014 at 4:29 AM), I have commented using my name and I do not hide my identity. There are a handful of us who use our names — Janet B-Mangilao, Henry W-San Miguet/Talofofo, Maria Rose, James from Tamuning, David in Inarajan, Toni-Barrigada, Adrian C-Maina, David Q, Maria, Adrian, Susan (names I’ve noticed since the New Year began) — and a couple who opt for pseudonyms “Incredulous” and “Average Joe.” Maybe you should do the same?

      3) While I’ve had to accept the fact that the NCW has influence over the Archbishop with their “suggestions,” I have absolutely NO ILLUSIONS that I have any influence with what Rome will do to deal with the division in our Church in Guam. I’m simply voicing my opinions, concerns and questions.

      In closing, may I suggest, Anonymous (January 8, 2014 at 4:29 AM), that:
      1) you read more carefully — or improve your reading comprehension skills — so that
      2) you give can give credit — blame? — where it is due.


      PS-Thank you for confirming that Fr. Paul Gofigan would, in fact, be a fine candidate to serve as Interim Diocesan Administrator, given the credentials you mentioned. That information put a “slight smile” on my face as I considered the possibility that Rome might take note of YOUR contribution as to Fr. Paul’s qualifications.

      Delete
  4. Correct. All the comments being written are in order.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Thankyou Janet very informative.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Word is (we'll see if it happens) that Archbishop is leaving Guam (again) later this month for Rome to be at (again) the Neo missio ad gentes, the sending forth of their lay missionaries all over the world. Many bishops support the Neo but just as one group among many in their dioceses. Kiko's eyes must really light up when he sees Apuron, who makes the Neos his one and only top priority that he does what few other bishops do, which is fly as fast as he can to Neo events wherever they are, especially if the Pope is in the room. Really, to remove Apuron from Guam in a graceful way, so his feelings can be spared, they should make him Archbishop Emeritus of Agana and assign him as resident archbishop at Porto San Giorgio (Neo International HQ) at the worldwide service of the Neos. Then Apuron can travel the world as he likes to do, be met at all the airports by serenading Neo seminarians, as they do here on Guam when he departs and returns, and be at all their big and small events. He'll be happy, the Neos will be happy and we on Guam will be happy. Nuncio Krebs - are you reading this???

    ReplyDelete

Recommendations by JungleWatch