Tuesday, March 18, 2014

KIKO'S THEOLOGY OF THE EUCHARIST

I am often asked about what am I trying to do with this blog? What is my end game? What is my plan? I am told I will "not win" as if I was trying to win something. 

While it wasn't my plan to begin with, what has become my "plan" is to simply create a forum, NOT so that those who oppose the Neo can air their gripes, but for Neos to tell us what they are really being taught deep within the bowels of the Neocatechumenal Way: the "catechesis" that is not accessible to us unsalted Judases or even to neo-newbies. 

We have learned much so far: Church documents governing the liturgy are subject to interpretation by the community; mere communicants consider themselves to be concelebrants; within a diocese communities govern themselves apart from the bishop; and so much more. 

But today we get to the heart of the matter. Today we get to the thing that is at the root of the suspicion that the Neocatechumenal Way is another religion or at least a schism waiting to happen. Today we get to the thing that some of us have long since sensed, but couldn't get any neo to admit. 

However, today, Zoltan does us that favor. Thanks to Zoltan we learn what Kiko really teaches about the eucharist. Here it is:

Actually, Kiko has an excellent explanation as of what happens when the bread turns into the Body. In fact, the texture of the bread remains bread and the make-up of the wine remains wine. But the Body of Jesus will appear mysteriously in it in a real sense. The same real sense as he is present in the communities and in His Church.
What Zoltan has just described here is Luther's theology of consubstantiation: the belief that the bread and wine does not actually BECOME the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, but that Jesus Christ, at the moment of consecration mysteriously appears "in, with, and under" the bread and wine. This is why Zoltan/Kiko can go on to say that this "presence" is the same as that "in the communities and in His Church." He is only spiritually present, not ACTUALLY and SUBSTANTIALLY present. 

This is why Kiko says he has no need of "altars". This is why Kiko feels he can play fast and loose with liturgical norms and interpret them to his own ends. This is why the neos feel they can handle the consecrated bread as they do (since IT is not Jesus - he is only mysteriously present). This is why being in a state of grace is not a condition for the worthy reception of Holy Communion in the Neocat "eucharist." This is why many of us, while only aware of the externals of the neocatechumenal eucharist, sense that something is wrong. This is Lutheranism. 

Transubstantiation is the very thing that we believe as Catholics that no other Christians believe. We may have much in common with our separated Christian brethren, but we part ways at transubstantiation. And here Kiko's theology parts with Catholicism. 

But then, for people who believe that Church teaching is only a "guide",  that instructions are subject to interpretation, and that the authority for interpretation lies with the community...all that matters is that the community believes it to be true. And today there are 33,000 plus groups who call themselves Christian who believe the exact same thing. But they at least have the integrity to call themselves something else. 

Understand that this is not Zoltan talking. This is Kiko talking. And talking to Catholics in the Archdiocese of Agana at the invitation of, and with the permission and protection of Archbishop Apuron. But according to Zoltan, the Archbishop has nothing to say about it anyway. (See previous post.)

P.S. Just remember that we are being asked to pay for all this. 





21 comments:

  1. Correct Tim you Explained so clearly. To develop further. If this is the thinking of a neo Proest as he offers mass, what is the end result. It is just a wafer, as it is not the intention of the priest to make Christ fully present. Certainly would never attend a mass by a neo priest myself. Something to reflect upon.

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  2. Just a correction, Catholicism & Orthodoxy are the only two Christian denominations that believe in the real presence

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    1. True, but I consider Orthodox to be Catholic in that regard, as we were all one church until the split, which was not doctrinal as it was with Luther.

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  3. As I said repeatedly, I do not represent anyone beyond myself. Please, do respect what I am saying. Jesus' presence in the Eucharist is a mystery. The most beautiful mystery of our faith. This is the teaching of the Church. This presence is the same, the presence of the Lord Jesus, in the communities and in the Church itself. How could this be a different presence if the Lord is One? (Shema, Israel...)

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    1. Pretty amazing that you say that you do not represent anyone beyond yourself and then you say "this is the teaching of the Church." Better talk to Sister before you "talk" again here. You are fast losing any credibility and I don't mean just credibility as regards your religious understanding.

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    2. Zoltan, you obviously didn't read the catechism then? The presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament is "unique". (1374 The mode of Christ's presence under the Eucharistic species is unique)

      The NCW understanding and teaching, as witnessed through Zoltan is highly disturbing.

      This is further revealed by looking at this page from a NCW seminary:

      http://www.rmsperth.org.au/page17.html

      Note the text under the first photo:
      "The Tabernacle shows the Sacramental presence of Jesus in the Scriptures (Silver Bible)..."

      No true Catholic (let alone a Catholic seminary) would ever propose that the 'presence' of Jesus in the Scripture is "sacramental"!!

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    3. Curious too, that the tabernacle in the Seminary is housed, not in a "Blessed Sacrament Chapel", but in the "Sanctuary of the Word".

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    4. Janet B - MangilaoMarch 19, 2014 at 12:41 AM

      This certainly explains why the Neos place the Gospel Book above the Tabernacle. They view the presence of Jesus to be the same in both? While I was taught that all scripture is divinely inspired, and that the gospel proclaimed to us is the word of Jesus, made present through its reading, the Eucharist is entirely different. The real presence is not as if HE were amongst us, but that HE is physically present: body, blood, soul, and divinity, in the Blessed Sacrament. Exactly like he said in John 6.

      A frightening vision just came to me - Is this Neo heresy what all my grandchildren will be taught in Catholic schools? Once our Archdiocese is completely Kiko-fied it will only be a matter of one to two generations before all Catholics in Guam are led along this heretical path!

      And to think that our former shepherd is leading us to the brow of this cliff. Tony - how can you live with yourself knowing what you know, and what we now know (thanks to Tim and Zoltan)?

      Another interesting vision and thought just came to mind. I have seen Tony at Holy Hours and Eucharistic processions. What could possibly be going through his mind?

      1.)Does he think this is absolutely phoney, when will we be finished so I can leave?
      2.)Does he really believe the Kiko version is phoney? But then we must ask, why does he throw himself fully into this heretical group? Is the money, power, travel, and adulation worth such a horrible price?
      3.) Does he have the ability to bifurcate. Are there really two Tony's. The good Tony who believes what the Church teaches, and the evil Tony who believes what Kiko teaches. If this were the case, we would like to hear it from Tony himself. Then we could pray for him. Just like the prostitute who is trapped in a world of sin, our prayers can help them escape. If Tony has prostituted himself to Kiko, then at least we should pray for him!
      Tony - WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU THINKING!!!!!!!!!
      The island awaits...still.

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  4. Tim, ask Diana what he or she thinks of the bread and wine. Let's hear his answer. He's also walking in the neo.

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    1. Sounds like you know who "he" is...?

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  5. Having talked to catechists on Guam about the Holy Mass it is clear they do not believe in the real presence , body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. To the neo members the bread is simply a bread to remind them of the presence of Jesus. They believe we all have the gift to make the presence available at the mass , so all people present are concelebrating. It's why sometimes you do see archbishop sitting in a mass, because they all are concelebrating. My family don't believe this, but we try to understand the archbishop and his reasoning. We don't attend these masses anymore as its not how we were raised but we wish the archbishop well. We attend mass, we pray the mass, but not concelebrate the mass. Only ordained priests do that.

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  6. The confusion about Jesus' modes of presence would explain their double-decker Tabernacles pretty well.

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    1. And here's a picture of the double decker at the seminary in Guam:
      http://www.seminaryguam.com/images/bg2.jpg

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  7. Prostrate yourselves before the Eucharist and pray from your hearts.

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    1. I suspect that those are frightening words to our neo friends.

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  8. Correct. The neo community does not believe in adoration of the Holy Eucharist. To the neo it is simply bread, reminding of Christs presence. So if you were to,say we will have holy hour, they will not join. So it's not a catholic understanding at all. Just find hard to understand how the archbishop can suddenly change his whole theology to allow these guys to do as they do on Guam.

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  9. Dear Sister Margaret, here is the teaching:

    About the mystical presence of the Lord in the Eucharist:

    1386 In the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom the faithful pray in the same spirit: "O Son of God, bring me into communion today with your mystical supper."

    About the unity of the Mystical Body:

    1396 The unity of the Mystical Body: the Eucharist makes the Church. Those who receive the Eucharist are united more closely to Christ. Through it Christ unites them to all the faithful in one body - the Church. (...) "If you are the body and members of Christ, then it is your sacrament that is placed on the table of the Lord."

    (The Catechism of the Catholic Church)

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P42.HTM

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  10. Not walking in the way, the statement of no adoration to the Blessed Sacrament is not true. The younger generations may not practice it but the seniors still do.

    San Bicente Church has adoration on Fridays, but they include evening prayer. During the month of Lent, I see elders, mostly women go to adoration at this time.

    Please do not assume that all have full immersion with the NCW. Some are only there because they find comfort. Some only need to feel the sense of belonging. Others just want to renew their faith. There are those who are now not so active.

    There are those who are fanatics and are beyond reasoning with. These are the,people who are the hypocrites. They are on an ego trip and will never come down to reality.

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  11. Funny, but the whole scriptural presence sounds like the Christ Bible Fellowship commercials... hahahaa

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    1. Jesus IS present in the proclamation of the Gospel. Catholics do believe this. But we do not worship the gospel book itself as we do the Blessed Sacrament.

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  12. Ha-ha, I thought it would come out like this! You see, folks, the neo-catechumenary has its secret teaching in the dark. It came out by simply scratching the surface with innocent questions, and then boooom! you got an answer that is extremely revealing, to say the least. No stigmata, okay, no transubstantiation! It is simple folks. You don't even have to mix local politics. The phenomena is universal, the problem is also universal. The fish smells from the head!
    They say their Catechetical Directory is available? Ha-ha... no way! Not even plain folks of their own have a chance to see it. It has all the secret teachings of their cult-leader, an amateur rebel theologian, who was a complete failure in the Focolare movement. He was fired for heresy and thus he established his own cult the neo-catechumenary. The lieutenants and colonels in this movement rule everything in secrecy. The secret teaching is only open to you once you commit yourself to the military style mission and after you have been promoted to a sergeant of lieutenant yourself! Then you are part of package, part of the secrecy.
    There is evidence that Pope Benedict's resignation was related to a promise of the neo-catechumenary that they made to Benedict. They promised that they will publish the Catechetical Directory of their boss. However, this has never happened! Are you surprised, folks, that there is no transubstantiation in their liturgy? Their wafer is empty! How about receiving the Eucharist on the tongue? No way! They would never ever allow that. You see, they made the false promise to Benedict and Benedict had to resign. He could not hold them on his back anymore with good conscience before God.

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