Thursday, January 9, 2014

THIS ONE SOUNDS LIKE IT IS FROM THE ARCHBISHOP

It may not be, but it doesn't matter. It is worth reading to see how critical it is for the opposition to try to discredit me personally. This was posted under MODERATION OF COMMENTS. I will offer some comments of my own following this one:


Its about time Tim! Thank you so much for taking this action into consideration. However, what is your definition of "unsupported personal accusations"? Is this for you alone to decide what is a worthy source or not? Just asking, because although I continue to remain anonymous, this is what I have been requesting from you since the start. Since the start of this blog you have been allowing commenter's to submit entries with no substantial proof of their accusations. Your accusations to the Neocatechumenate that according to you are fact and clear disobedience to the Church continue to be the only issue that you have against the Neocatechumenal Way. As you have mentioned, there are key individuals in church hierarchy that are viewing this blog closely, I hope they see the truth. Not the truth according to your views or the views of a select few. I hope they see how some who claim to be Roman Catholics are taking time out to choose their words wisely in regards to the accusations towards the Neocatechumenal way. I hope they see how members of the Necatechumenal Way have requested for an end to these attacks and have really tried hard to maintain an environment of peace. 
Its hard not to wonder that if you had known early on about the key profiles of some of your viewers, would you have issued this statement early on? Well, thats for them to decide. Since this is your blog, you also have the power to control the content and allow it to swing in your favor. 
Im glad that you finally realize that the letter sent to you by the Grand Master of the Holy Sepulcher does have bearing and truth.

MY REPLY:

I have only committed to removing comments alleging sexual misconduct against clergy by name which are not supported by either someone willing to put their name on the accusation or document the evidence. I will also judge what is inappropriate when there are personal attacks on clergy by name. I can do this because this is my blog. Start your own if you don't like it. 

There is no "truth according to my views". There is only fact. 

Fact 1: The NCW violates Can. 932 by regularly celebrating the Eucharist apart from a consecrated space.

Fact 2: The NCW distribution of Holy Communion is not in compliance with the liturgical books as your statute requires

Those are not views. If permission exists for you to do these two things, supply it, and I will post it for all to see so that you are no longer seen as standing in opposition to Rome. 

These are not issues that I have against the Neocatechumenal Way. It has nothing to do with me, though people like you are trying hard to make it so. You do this because you cannot refute the facts so you attack the messenger. It's a disgrace to you that all can see. 

Simply prove that these observations are incorrect. Your turn.

PS. If there was "truth" to the Grand Master's letter, he would have removed me from the Order. He has not. And even if he does at some point, the above violations remain fact. 

13 comments:

  1. Even if you think this is from the Archbishop himself,I bet that as usual he had someone write this on his behalf. Still two wrongs don't make a right. The wrong against Father Paul and the wrong against the NCW of receiving communion.

    The people of Santa Barbara since the beginning have rallied in favor of a Father Paul. What does this tell the archdiocese? The parishioners love the man and his sermons.

    With the NCW the rules were laid down, but ignored. Nothing was done to rectify it, so if the shoe fits wear it.

    I hate it when clergy members hide behind the cloth

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  2. The NCW should not only be looked into for disobeying Rome in liturgical matters, but also be investigated for teaching heresy during their catechesis. I heard from someone that attended their regular catechesis meetings that they were teaching, "God is not offended by our sins - we only sin against our neighbor since nothing can be added nor taken away from Him." That is downright blasphemy and heresy!

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  3. I heard this, I heard that....the list goes on and on..........................

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  4. —EWTN: And the Way opens an avenue for this to somehow reverse itself. Kiko, I have abused your time. One last commentary before we close. Just recently, the Neocatechumenal Way received the final official approval from Rome. Can you tell us briefly what has happened on this occasion so important for all of the worlds Neocatechumenates?

    —Kiko Argüello: It has been wonderful. We have worked with the Holy See for five years. People saw us as a movement, as a religious congregation, as a lay association; they didn’t know what we were. We have said; no, we are not a movement, we are a Christian Initiation.

    This is a novelty from a juridical pint of view because the new Canon Law talks of private and public associations. We have struggled to be recognized as what we really are. Because if we are an association, then the Catechumenate, all of the Christian Initiation, seems to be in order to enter the association. We say: “Baptism is not an association. We want to renew Baptism; the parishes Christian communities are the parishes, they are not an association; they are the parish’s Christians. We aren’t out to make a Church more perfect than the other, class ‘A’ Christians and class ‘B’ Christians. They are Christians that are renewing their Baptism, because it is necessary to proclaim the Gospel to those who are estranged from the Church.”

    This has been a very important battle. The Pope, the Holy See has recognized us as a Christian Initiation, as a post-baptismal catechumenate. It is the first time in the history of the Church. The canonists of the whole world have congratulated us. They have said that the Church has taken a very important step forward. That is why we are so grateful: the Church has been a mother to us, we are very happy that she has really respected what we are. This does not mean that we are better that the Opus Dei or than anything else…, all the contrary, everything in the Church is wonderful, but we are different, we are a Christian Initiation.

    CAREFULLY READ the last statement. " But we are different, we are a Christian initiation". Explanation.please!

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  5. —EWTN: That was going to be my other question. Now I’m going to a previous one: Kiko, at this moment, millions of persons are viewing and listening to us. A person who is watching us in Peru, here in Spain or in any part of America or Europe, and has become very interested in what you have shared, this vision, this beginning to search for Christ… What can he do in his own city, how can someone who know nothing of the Way find the Neocatechumenal Way?



    —kiko Argüello: The most important thing is —I believe that the Virgin, who has inspired this Way—, ultimately, the greatest grace is giving a person the possibility of living his faith in a community. It is such a great thing! We have been living in a Christendom, Mass on Sunday, people receive the sacraments but don’t have a concrete community, a community of 50, of 40 brethren that love each other. Jesus has said: “Love each other as I have loved you. In this love…”

    What is it then that the Way does in a parish? Today at our side there are many secularized persons, that is, that modern life has led them to lose the feeling for the sacred, religious things tell them nothing, they enter the churches like the Japanese, taking pictures, an the priest says nothing.

    The normal pastoral care in our parishes —Mass, catechesis, etc.— is for religious persons, but is no good for modern man, who is secularized, half atheist, socialist, etc. Those religious services are not effective, a sign is necessary. And I ask myself: “is there a sign that calls out to a modern secularized man?” Jesus says: “Love yourselves as I have loved you, in this love that atheist will know that you are my disciples. And if your love is so strong that you are perfectly one, that man will believe.” In all the parishes of America the pastor has the duty to evangelize the secularized persons. How? Creating a parish community that that gives those signs: “as I have loved you.” Christ has loved us in the dimension of the Cross. What is the meaning of Christ’s love for us in the dimension of the Cross? that we love each other as He loved us? Christ loved us when we were his enemies. I don’t know if you have seen many Christians that love their enemies.

    I attended a catholic school, graduated from a Jesuit university and I received the strong catholic teaching one can ask for. This is not excluding the teaching of Catholicism in the traditional Chamorro culture. Kiko cannot say that I do not have the concrete foundation of FAITH.

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  6. Tim writes....
    "These are not issues that I have against the Neocatechumenal Way. It has nothing to do with me, though people like you are trying hard to make it so. You do this because you cannot refute the facts so you attack the messenger. It's a disgrace to you that all can see."

    So please explain why do you keep posting up articles that go on to attack the NCW? Why do you keep implying that every darn move the bishop takes is to favor the NCW?
    As you have stated there are two(2) facts at the root of the issue with the NCW, is this your approach? To continue to persecute the NCW until changes are made according to your timeline.

    I also notice how desperate you became to encourage some response from those in the NCW. Your blog posts were sort of blah and page views were down, you had to come up with a way to increase page views. You knew very well how to provoke the readers. I hope Im not the only one that sees this.
    So Ive come to believe then, that since you have stated that this has nothing to do with you, this blog is just an avenue of entertainment, something for you to pass time with.
    So the Pope has an audience with the leaders of the NCW come February, lets see what happens.

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    Replies
    1. Desperation? Hardly.
      The connection between the actions of the Archbishop (or those representing him) and the NCW is very apparent and real. To deny that one has nothing to do with the other flies in the face of how it is that one walks in the way.
      Is this a good or bad thing for the Archbishop? So far, some decisions towards those not in the NCW have been unfavorable.
      Disobedience to the Magistarium through non-liturgical adherence aside (which is pretty generous IMHO), I think that if the NCW were to exist on Guam, it should do so in a diocese in which its bishop is not so personally invested in it. That's my suggestion.

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    2. Again, you attack the messenger and fail to challenge Tim's point.

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    3. Pretty sad. Yes. He continues to attack the messenger. I think everyone can see who this guy is.

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  7. 2 simple questions and hundreds of posts later - and still no answers! Simple questions- it doesn't need a rocket scientist or a Harvard degree graduate to find the answers does it???

    I know the NCW members come to this blog to "see what's up", to try to defend their actions regarding the Eucharist by attacking the messenger. I'm pretty sure the NCW leaders are most likely reading Tim's blog and keeping quiet because they are either 1)obeying Pius or Kiko to keep silent or 2) they have no documents. Let's all agree that Kiko and Carmen are also reading this blog and trying to find ways to fix the situation before they show us proof of documentation.
    They say that the Pope has a meeting with the NCW members come February. Maybe they will persuade the pope or someone in the vatican to give them some form of documentation to say - hey look, it says here we can hold the bread all at the same time and contemplate for a few minutes before the signal is given to eat it at the same time. So when that day comes - congratulations! Maybe one day, someone within the community might just get the idea not to consume it and keep it for other purposes, you never know. So go ahead, do it...contemplate away! God help you!

    Tim and every CONCERNED catholic with respect to the Eucharist is asking for answers to just those 2 simple questions. How hard can that be???

    Btw, just a friendly reminder: This is Tim's blog. He has every right to post what he wants, it is HIS blog. You have a right not to read it if you don't agree with it.

    But in all honesty, if you feel determined to defend the NEO actions... Why don't you start by ANSWERING the 2 SIMPLE questions.

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  8. Strangely enough I had responded to this comment — not realizing that it could have been written by the Archbishop! — because it struck me that the person had a problem with reading comprehension (and a few other grammatical challenges). The original comment was posted in “Moderation of Comments” which explained why comments would be moderated and included a NOTE that concluded with the sentence “It is important that commenters refrain from name calling and unsupported personal accusations.”

    It was curious to me that the writer had latched on to the phrase “unsupported personal accusations” and then launched into attacking those who had questions, concerns or criticisms of the NCW, completely ignoring the fact that the phrase had to do with protecting the reputations of the clergy! This was clearly a case of the writer taking the phrase out of context — as a means of protecting the reputation of clergy — and then twisting it to meet the writer’s needs; namely, to defend the NCW. Or maybe the writer just didn't understand the content of that post.

    I guess I will now be on the Chancery's Persona Non Grata List because I had made reference to the Archbishop's attempt to bully Fr. Paul and destroy his reputation as well as pointing out how the Archbishop’s Eucharistic services violated Canon Law and the GIRM.

    AND I guess when I’m being held hostage this weekend which, if I recall correctly from an earlier comment, will be the beginning of the 2014 round of Neo “Commercials” I can use it as Penance OR offer it up for the relief of the suffering souls in Purgatory.

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  9. Every catholic who believes in Jesus Christ present in the most Holy Eucharist should support Mr. Tim Rohr. mr. Tim Rohr is above all a defender of the catholic Faith, he stands for truth and justice, he stands for values, and when your on the side of God and Justice, and truth, no one can stop you.. Mr Rohr you have a growing number of priest supporters in many countries, we are with you, and soon you will know who we are. you are not alone.

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  10. Be assured also of the support of diocesan seminarians for you and the men desiring priesthood outside of the neo.

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