Sunday, February 23, 2014

AGAIN, TOO MUCH INFORMATION. BUT WE'LL TAKE IT. THANKS.

Had we not continued to get taunts like this one, the issue of the Neocatechumenal Way would have gone away along time ago on this blog. But before we get into this particular taunt, let's review.

The issue of the NCW first arose not here, but on the radio, when a local talk show host speculated that the firing of Fr. Paul was related to his resistance to the NCW. In truth, Fr. Paul had NOT said "No" to the NCW in his parish, he had simply required that if the NCW was to come to the parish that 1) all Masses be in the church (as required by Canon Law except for rare exceptions), and 2) to provide evidence that the particular NCW manner of distributing communion was permitted (i.e. "show me the document"). 

We repeated his request here on this blog and went into some background as to what that "document" was and why it was central to the questions many others had about the NCW. At that point, there was really nothing more to say. Many people took the opportunity of the discussion to express their frustrations with the NCW, but there really wasn't anything else to document. 

However, as you are aware, if you have been following this blog, we might as well have stuck a pig, a wild one, in fact, a whole herd. And in the process of addressing all the squealing we have come upon:

  1. the questionable status of the the Redemptoris Mater Seminary as the seminary we were "sold";
  2. the alleged creation of a whole new seminary, once that status was questioned;
  3. the illegal attempt to transfer the title to the land which the seminary occupies to a foreign controlled NCW entity;
  4. the Archbishop's infamous challenge of Vatican authority (the Arinze letter);
  5. the questioning of the archdiocesan appeal;
  6. the discovery of the plans to build "neocatechumenaries";
  7. visits to this blog from all over the world to the tune of nearly 1000 page views per day;
  8. and the list goes on.

Quite a mountain of events from the request for one little piece of paper!

And now with the publication of a request to Rev & Tax to look into the finances of the NCW, we are getting fresh taunts, lots of them. But more important, we are getting inside information. Here's one, from Anonymous of course:
Money is collected and used for both the Way's retreat and the Parish, and these collections are usually done after the Liturgy of the word. The Way uses church grounds to hold their celebrations. They collect to pay for the air-conditioning, electricity, and the use of the CCD classroom, social hall, or whatever room is available in church. The Parish I am in records the money coming from the Way. When the Way uses Catholic schools for their Sunday retreat, they also collect donations and turn the money in to the school. Donations are given to the school for the use of the facility and electricity.
Anonymous here speaks of the Way as if it is operating as an autonomous entity such as the Knights of Columbus, Christian Mothers, Legion of Mary, etc. It is not. And the NCW has gone through great pains to separate itself on this count. Thus, by the definition of its own Statute it is not an organization or movement but an "itinerary of rediscovery of Christian initiation" implemented in the parish. (Art 6, §1.) 

In form, it is similar to the RCIA and CCD programs which operate as part of the parish. The Knights, Mothers, and Legion, may have a chapter within a parish but are distinct, in its organizational elements, from the parish. Thus these groups are normally incorporated or part of a corporate structure through which they obtain control over their own finances, and therefore fall under the laws which govern non-profits. RCIA and CCD programs may have fundraisers or collections from time to time for this or that reason but are not corporate organizations distinct from the parish, and neither is the NCW, at least it's not supposed to be. But Anonymous here, tells us otherwise.

Anonymous goes on:
As for the annual retreat, the Way holds it at a hotel for 3 nights. Did you think that the hotel was going to give us food and board for free? GET REAL. Since when is anything free? 
Why is the "Way" paying for anything on its own? Since the NCW, by its own insistence, is NOT an organization, but simply a "Way" of Christian initiation at the service of the bishop and the parish, then like the RCIA, Confirmation Classes, CCD, etc., it is the parish that should be contracting with the hotel and writing the check, with any funds raised for a particular event by the attendees going directly to the parish. However, the NCW here is described as acting on its own, apart from the parish, as if it is a distinct organization, WITHOUT the legal organizational status (in the eyes of the taxman) as organizations such as the Knights and the Legion of Mary. 
As for the celebrations in the Way, no money is collected in the Way's Mass, so there's no money to turn in from the Eucharist. We don't collect any money during the Eucharist like the regular mass.
At first, I couldn't tell if Anonymous was a Neo or just a JungleWatch hater (as some claim to be), but here he tells us he's a Neo: "We don't collect..." We also see the neo distinction between their "Eucharist" and the "regular mass". But beyond that, he has already told us that "money is collected after the Liturgy of the Word", which for those who don't know, is a separate weekly event, apart from the the "Eucharist". 

So regardless of how Anonymous Neo wants to parse it, the NCW has a weekly collection just like those of us who attend the "regular Mass". BUT whereas we see the money collected placed into baskets and taken up to the sanctuary during the Offertory, and whereas we know that that money is subject to a pastor-supervised accounting process, and whereas we know that the pastor must be diligent in its accounting, deposit, and disbursements, we see and know none of that with the Neocatechumenal Way.

And IN FACT, the NCW is not authorized to take up regular collections as does a parish, it is only authorized by its Statute to take up particular collections "to answer different needs":
In the communities, collections are made to answer different needs. It is the task of the responsible team of the community and of the responsible teams of the Way at every level, to ensure that such collections are administered with a great sense of responsibility and respect for the law. (Art. 4 §3.)
Did you get that last part? "...respect for the law"? Do you even know which laws you are to respect? Is there at least a full accounting given to the pastor? Is there ever a surplus collection of money at a hotel event? To where and whom does that money go? As a parish entity the NCW is required to return any surplus to the pastor unless otherwise authorized. 

Anonymous Neo concludes with the typically vicious taunt we have grown quite accustomed to from the Neos:
So, yeah, call out the auditors. They're more intelligent and realistic because obviously, you think that all the hotels that accommodate our retreats give us free meals and free beds. What....did you actually think that the Way was supposed to just keep the money and NOT pay the hotel bill? 

41 comments:

  1. NCW is a groups of its own. You collect money, hope you do not use it as tax deduction as donation to the church. There is some kind of funny monkey playing with money going on here! HMMMM!

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  2. I think these Neo's watched Matrix one too many times because they have mastered that famous Keanu Reeves deflection move. I am finding their comments quite amusing. Ombre gachong, we all know nothing is free...including the duped Catholics of this diocese. The fact of the matter is money is collected and unaccounted for. It does not go through the Pastors or collection counters but directly into the hands of the top dogs to pay for things. Therefore this means that the Neo group must apply for tax exemption at Rev and Tax, form a board, take minutes from your meetings to get a bank account, and legitimize yourselves. The other option is to turn ALL FUNDS in to be counted by the collection counters. I highly doubt that you neos will do either option because your puppet masters like the ambiguity. Therefore you all will continue to operate in the darkeness while the rest of the faithful fork out for your seminary and neo centers. Funny how simple inquiries make you all react. Funny how you tell us to "get real", well friend, you just boarded off the Fantasy Island tour and we are glad to welcome you to The Jungle..

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    1. News flash your money does not go to the seminary. Why? The money from some Financial Council said so. Again your blowing smoke from your REAR. Lot's hot smoke. The seminary is sustain by off island donation. No worry not from you. So give it a rest or if not content. Drive down to Seminary and ask him instead of speculating like a 12 year old. There is no cure for STUPID. Dangnabit

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    2. Good! So don't ask for the Annual Appeal! Thank you for that clarification! We don't need to give to fund their education. Such a relief! Guess the RMS students will get their financial,help elsewhere. Apply for the federal Student Loan!

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    3. Um what is the request for $265k for then? Your brother Tony demanded this and is willing to bankrupt the parishes. Btw, , English isn't your first language, is it? Peekaboo...we see you! How neo of you to say..."no cure for stupid". At least we can see your true colors.

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    4. The Pontifical Lateran is involve and write the Santo Papa Kiko not the lay man. If you don't get it The Pope Francis not Kiko Arguello. Get the clue Mr. MCGOO. SIGN NOT NEO DUDE.

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    5. Archbishop Apuron, you can thank the writer for the information about donations from off island. This eases our pockets. Yes, Lord, thank you for the Holy Spirit has enlightened this person to come forth with this information! Peace!

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  3. And yet we still continue...

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    1. but the difference is, he left the Catholic Church. I am sure if we are told to eliminate the NCW, it wouldnt be a problem.

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  4. Three more deacons from Kiko's RMS three men we barely know.

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    1. At least it wasn't one of the seminarians who laughed in church while the Archbishop was singing a song in honor of the Blessed Mother. You know who you are. How disrespectful can you be! You laughed from the start of the song until it ended. If push comes to shove, since I do not know you I can identify you. You sat next to little geppetto.

      Your actions during that time shows you have no respect for the house of God, the Blessed Mother and our traditional song. You act so pious infront of the Archbishop, but you mimic him behind his back.

      Your actions speaks louder than words....you don't belong in the seminary let alone on this island!

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    2. BTW, why do the seminarians when receiving communion, fold their arms going up and then as they are to receive communion make the cross sign with their hands? Mind you, arms were folded, not hands. Is this your way of showing reverence when receiving communion? NO RESPECT FOR THE LORD! TRUE MODELS of CHRIST you will be!

      You had better re-evaluate your conscience and ask yourselves, is this where I really want to be? Am I here to make fun of The Lord or to praise him?

      If these are the actions of men who want to be priests...we are in for trouble.

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    3. Actually, there are several "seminarians" at RMS who have publicly stated they don't want to be priests. They are just there because it's a "free education". Go figure!

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  5. In all my years in the Way I never saw the money go to our Priests, but through my cathchists who say to not worry about it. And I believed like they told me. But seeing this makes me cringe. If everyone else is required to do this why is the Way so special?

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  6. BTW to that seminarian, you were sitting a few pews in front of Brother Ivan Babauta who was wearing a yellow shirt that day! I am going to make you sweat a little before I start describing your features. Say your prayers!

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    1. Seminarian here is the first clue of what you look like:

      Point Dexter feature! if you don't resemble Point Dexter, you can breathe a sigh of relief! More to come.

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    2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    3. Okay, let's try that again. Full description now..Tall, thin, dirty brown hair, light complexion, black framed glasses, pointy nose and was wearing a black jacket. Sitting next to you was a short seminarian, light competition, round face, black hair, and had a mustache.
      Hair was kinda wavey.

      You all should be ashamed of yourselves. If you have no respect in the House of The Lord, how can other people even respect you. You are a disgrace to the seminary!

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    4. Anonymous (February 23, 2014 at 10:08 PM): Are you referring to Nicki Minaj's alter ego Point Dexter? Or are you referring to Poindexter, the character from the Felix the Cat cartoon?

      I'm just wondering, because those are two very different images, the only common feature being eyeglasses. Is that the clue you're trying to share?

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    5. If someone would post a picture of the seminarians, I will point him out. Although the shorter one may be new and not in photo. I have observed this seminarian for a few years now. Even at the celebration of the Last Supper during the Lenten season, he is just talking away. Not much of a role model I may add.

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    6. Never mind found a photo under Umatuna si Yu'us titled Rector from Pope's University Visits. On the right side towards the top, look for seminarian with glasses, dirty brown hair, and standing almost next to person with white hair. That's him!

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  7. I don't think Luther meant to break away. He just wanted to implement changes to improve on the errors.

    So the neos will continue just like Luther and will they come to the same fate - another addition to the 40,000+ denominations in the world?

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  8. Man....you are really stupid. I said, "Money is collected and used for both the Way's retreat and the Parish, and these collections are USUALLY done after the Liturgy of the word. ."...and you're mouthing off "weekly" collection?? DUH!!! How is it that you interpret the word "usually" to weekly?? Do we have a retreat every week???? DUH!!! No, we have a retreat every five to six weeks, idiot.

    If the community needs to order some flowers, they can do a collection, just as it is stated in the Statues....and what makes you think that we are not following the laws?? Didn't I just tell you that we give to the Parish for the use of their facility? And did I not tell you that we give to the Catholic schools whenever we use their facility.

    Like I said, bring out the auditors because all they're going to see is the Way contributing to the Parish and the Catholic school for using their facility whenever we hold a celebration or retreat. They will see that we are helping the local economy by using the local hotels. You ask for a surplus?? DUH!! Would you like to see the hotel bill last year that the Way held at the Marriot for three nights for 300 people, which includes seminarians with no money?? Ask God how it was possible that such a bill was actually paid?

    You say I'm vindictive. Well, it takes one to know one. Simple as that.

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    1. Okay Mrs. Reyes if you say so. Hahahaha

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    2. It's difficult to just sit back and ignore this. This person above is right. You can ask the Mercy and SSND principal we donate the when we use it. Lastly these two order mentioned they do not agree with this blog and do not like the admin. I guess don't expect them with an open arms when you pay them a visit. They roll thier eyes. Uh huh and I ain't making this up. I guess someone against you Tim and it's not me. They are mad at you.

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    3. What about the Rite of Renunciation of Idols during the 2nd Scrutiny? How much is collected? What happens to the jewelry and other valuables? How is it accounted for? How much does the Archbishop get? How much gets sent off-island and to whom?

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    4. To whom is this comment directed? Why get so mad if everyone is an idiot and doesn't understand? The Arch has your back so why come here to explain?

      The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

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    5. 10:04pm - So now you speak for the Mercy and SSND? The other Neo guy said they were old with no vocations. Now you want to use them as your backers?

      I know some Sisters myself and they ain't too fond of you!

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    6. So what you're saying is that while the rest of us who go to the "regular Mass" support our parishes through the "regular" weekly collections, the NCW only takes up a collection when they need something for themselves. OKAY!

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    7. DUH! You don't need a hotel, there is the retreat house in Malojloj! It's cheaper, DUH! you can always pack your lunch or cook there DUH!

      Guess you need the comfort of a hotel! DUH! Christ was not born in a place of elegance or have you forgotten DUH! Christ led a simple life, you are living the life of comfort in a hotel. Big difference DUH!

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    8. Actually if Im not mistaken the NCW does use the Carmel retreat house too.....I heard one of the communities actually took care of the carpeting in one of the main rooms. Not sure how true this is. On average the Carmel Retreat House tends to equate to the same expense as the Hotel. A fee is imposed per head, per room, per AC per day. I may be deflecting but just wanted to give my 2 cents for what its worth.

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    9. Even if the Carmel retreat house costs the same, or even if it costs more. It's our retreat house and the funds stay in house and do not divert to a corporate entity outside the church or even hostile to it. Too bad we don't think more like Kiko. He's found a way to make money from everything.

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  9. The fact remains, YOUR GROUP COLLECTS MONEY! NO IFS WHATS OR BUTS!

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  10. So esta, you're telling the person how the money is laundered, pues case closed! I think I'm going to tell my Pale that next month he is going to tell the Chancery verbally that we paid our loan and power, forget our financial statement. If it works for you guys, then it's the maolek thing to do! Jungle rules, nai...fair-fair. Despensa yu adai sa you said we are brodie so please fan break-down that scheme again.

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    1. Anonymous (February 24, 2014 at 12:20 AM): I know that for many years the phrase "we are brodie" was commonly used to denote profound ignorance. When Chief Brodie Memorial Elementary School first opened in 1960, the school was dedicated to serving the needs of students with severe disabilities — physical and intellectual (FKA mental retardation). Unfortunately, because the students were segregated at that school, on Guam the term "Brodie" became synonymous with having severely impaired intellectual abilities; the term was never used in reference to physical disabilities.

      However, as of August 22, 1994, as full-inclusion was being implemented, the school transitioned into a "regular" elementary school. The CBMES students were enrolled in their home districts so that they would be able to interact with "normal" kids in "regular" classrooms while still receiving instruction in SpEd classrooms, per their IEPs. Considering that this year 2014 marks the 20th year of CBMES as a regular school, your phrase "we are brodie" is not only inappropriate, it is also an insult to the students, faculty, staff and administration of that school.

      Please try to find another way to express the concept of profound intellectual disabilities. Thank you.

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    2. Thank you Mary Lou, my thoughts exactly about using the derogatory term 12:20am uses so comfortably.

      I can't blame the neos (I have to assume 12:20am is a neo from the content of his/her posting) for not being able to address the issues we point out because they are kept in the dark by their catechists; therefore they have no recourse but to respond to our questions with insults -- and they do not even realize that their choice of words insult, not us, but another very innocent group and community of people!

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    3. Pay your share for the use of the Church facilities! HMMM show the receipts. Bet you can't produce one from the Cathedral because the Archbishop has your back.

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  11. It is sickening to read some of the neos comments on the sisters of Mercy and SSND.
    On one side they tell us they are old and don't serve any purpose.
    How insulting it is to wipe away in such a cavalier way over a century of service and love to the people of Guam. Sisters that have sacrificed they lives, their youth, the better years of their lives selflessly for generations of Chamorros are now insulted and denigrated by late comers who wrapped themselves in a shroud of lies and deceit.
    How low can they fall?
    As for the sisters leanings in this fight for the survival of the Catholic Church on Guam, just a few facts. Some are related to priests on the island that have been hurt and vilified by the Chancery and the Archbishop, and while their status and plain decency forbid them to make their feeling known publicly, their hierarchy is well aware of the issues at hand. Many other sisters who studied on the mainland are no slouch either, and from the long conversations during their stay there certainly are not going to support a dictatorial Archbishop and/or his minions.

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  12. Mary Lou is correct. I have been a teacher at Chief Brodie Memorial School since August 1994 when it converted into a regular school with some mainstreamed special needs students. The school was named for Chief Clifford Brodie who was one of the Seabees who helped construct the school. Chief Clifford Brodie died of a heart attack during the construction of the school. So the school was named in his honor and memory. Although the school was originally opened to service special needs students exclusively, it now services all students. Some of our special needs students are so intelligent there are in the Gifted and Talented program. The writer who misused the term "brodie" reminds me of a Guam mass transit bus driver who asked me if people in the U.S. mainland also call people "brodies."

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  13. Just a note on the "Brodie" thing. I understand the concern. However, the person who used it was placing it the mouth of the person who was treating us as if we were mentally handicapped for not understanding how the Neo handles money. It may or may not have been the commenter's intent, but essentially the use of the word, in its placement, effectually illustrates the demeaning attitude and disrespect the neo-defender has for the rest of us.

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