Wednesday, February 12, 2014

CLASSIC

No comment needed:

Anonymous February 12, 2014 at 11:59 AM

Peace,

Was just curious why it seems you have this hate or judgement for the "Neocats" and why you spend so much energy to put down the Neocatechumenal Way when there are far greater things happening in this world that are more serious, like the crimes, the terrorism, the diseases, the catastrophes, etc.



Maybe I don't understand but I have witness that there have been fruits from this Neocatechumenal Way. Is there anything wrong with bringing those who strayed away from the church, back to the church? rebuilding marriages? rebuilding families? Vocations to the priesthood? Vocations to be a nun? Vocations to be catechists (teachers)? etc.

I am glad that God allows people such as you, to persecute the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Without this persecution, I think many of us would have not been adamant on seeking God for refuge and understanding.

I pray that God will make light of all the events in our lives whether good or bad.

Peace.

21 comments:

  1. You only need to read a little of this blog to know understand the issues being raised. Read it for yourself. There is no need to repeat all that has been said here over the last weeks.

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  2. I would like to share that a few years ago, my home was visited by two seminarians. We were ecstatic to receive them and told them it was wonderful so see our Catholic brethren evangelizing. They proceeded to invite us to a catechism so we could hear the good news. One young man, from Ireland, told us his story of his mother and father and how their family was saved. My husband and I shared that we, too, were Catholic and very involved in our Parish with various ministries and that our children were very involved as well. They were obviously uninterested and replied "don't you want to be true Catholics?" He proceeded to imply that our faith was lacking and we needed to be saved. When asked if they evangelized to any non-catholic people, they again ignored our comments and simply continued to suggest that there was something wrong with us. The whole thing smacked of psychological recruitment. Of course, who wouldn't want to be "true catholic". When told that you are doing it wrong and they, as the higher authority, have the only answer, one would obviously want to follow. Who wants to admit that they're deficient in their faith? However, we believe that we are following our faith in the ONE HOLY, CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH. We sent them on their way with a cold drink and God's blessings.

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  3. To Anonymous (February 12, 2014 at 11:59AM):

    Peace,

    Considering your opening and closing messages of “Peace” which bookend your disparaging comments, I’m guessing that you are one of those NeoCats. I don’t know if you are addressing the owner of this blog or Non-NeoCats in general.

    I’m curious why you and many of your ilk are unable to accept questions, concerns and criticisms about the NCW. I’m curious why you and many of your ilk don’t realize the division caused by the activities of the NCW in the Catholic Church —not just on Guam but worldwide — is a very serious matter. I’m curious why you and many of your ilk spend so much energy to insult and vilify the owner of this blog, a man who, for many years, has defended the Catholic faith in the media (and was once the Archbishop’s “go to” guy as indicated by Apuron’s complaint that “Mr. Rohr is after me”), a man who tirelessly fights to protect the unborn and is often the “face of the prolife movement on Guam,” as media representatives usually approach him for interviews in activities within the prolife community.

    Maybe I don’t understand, but your so-called “fruits” look to me like fruits of a poisoned tree. I have witnessed that you and your ilk do not bring back “those who strayed away from the church, back to the church.” NO! You go into churches during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to pluck new members out of the pews with your “invitations” instead of seeking those who have left the Church for membership in other denominations and/or non-denominational ecclesial communities. If you truly want to bring people back to the Church, you would go to the Lutheran, Episcopal and Baptist communities. You would go to New Covenant, to Life in the Son, to Abundant Life, to Christ Bible Fellowship, and others. You would go to those places and find those who TRULY have “strayed away from the church.”

    You dare to cite that this movement brings vocations to the priesthood? That should be a qualified claim. Please explain the plight of Aaron Quitugua — a young man who desires to become a priest and is being blocked by the Archbishop, via his Chancellor, because Aaron does not want to be a “Neo priest” and wants to attend an off-island seminary. It will not cost the Archdiocese a single penny; all he needs is for the Archdiocese to sponsor him. But the answer is NO!

    Your claim that what you and your ilk do are “fruits of the Holy Spirit” is absolutely ludicrous! Based on the ranting and ravings of NCW members like Zoltan, Benjamin, and so many “Anonymous” commenters, I have to ask: Do you even know what the Fruits of the Holy Spirit really are? Or are you going by a generalized perspective that what you do are good works performed under the “inspiration of the Holy Spirit”? I’m guessing it’s the latter because based on the comments posted by many NeoCats who, like you offer a shallow greeting of “Peace” before — or after — vilifying NON-NeoCats, you and your ilk do not have the TRUE Fruits of the Holy Spirit enumerated by St. Paul in his Letter to the Galatians.

    I pray that you will do some of your own independent study, apart from what your catechists drill into you, and discover that you are being used to perpetuate heresies that Kiko Argüello “borrowed” from the Lutherans and the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    Peace from a Non-NeoCat

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  4. Much of the criticism leveled against the Way is by people who know nothing about it but only what is hearsay.

    It is by the fruits that you see its validity. In the 40 years of its existence one can see its validity through the results of it. The many vocations to both the priesthood and the sisters. Its rebuilding of the family, it's adherence to the church in the teachings of the church. It's tremendous help in rebuilding marriages, keeping youth in the church and the list can go on. As you read in the Pope's statement concerning the vocations.

    I guess it is always the role of the church to discern the validity of the charism. So like all new charisms in the church they have to be tested to see thier validity. I think that in the past 40 or so years, a short time in the light of the history of the Church, its fruits are very valid.

    The criticisms of the way by many people who really don't know too much about it perhaps even proves the point. That something must be happening that people are taking notice of it albeit but only through hearsay.

    All I can say is that I have seen the lives of people rebuilt not by the use of moralisms but by helping them to enter into the scriptures and the Eucharist so that they can experience in their own lives the working of God. I have seen children return to the church, marriages rebuilt, parishioners being overly generous to the church with their time talent and treasure. So if it seems to be working why knock it?

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    1. The rest of the Catholic Church, which obviously does not include you, judge "validity" by obedience to the Magisterium in matters wherein it is its competence, such as the Liturgy.

      Redemptoris Sacramentum, says:

      [16] “It pertains to the Apostolic See to regulate the Sacred Liturgy of the universal Church, to publish the liturgical books and to grant the recognitio for their translation into vernacular languages, as well as to ensure that the liturgical regulations, especially those governing the celebration of the most exalted celebration of the Sacrifice of the Mass, are everywhere faithfully observed”.

      Every Saturday night you violate the the prescriptions of the Liturgical Books as regulated by the Apostolic See. In fact, your leader, Kiko, told the pope that he would do exactly that. And in shunning the authority of the Apostolic See in this regard, as it concerns the regulation of the Sacred Liturgy, you divorce yourself from the Magisterium and the Church.

      It doesn't matter how many so-called fruits you can point to. The fastest growing church in the world right now is the Mormon church. They point to the same fruits as evidence of their validity. God doesn't look for numbers. He looks for obedience. And you don't have it.

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    2. AnonymousFebruary 12, 2014 at 1:43 PM:
      So If I take Anon's 40 year logic and fruits then they (NEO) should have no problems with me leaving the Catholic Church and becoming Protestant or joining a fundamentalist church right?.......that's what I thought.

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    3. I am related to the Neo on the left side....meaning I left the community. What I post is what I have experienced. Peace my brother/sister. From a neocat who was in a community at St Anthony. Our community was merged with another, because we slowly bowed out.

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    4. Glad to be Back to Holy Mother ChurchFebruary 14, 2014 at 10:00 AM

      Anon 2/12 1:43pm - you judge that most who comment know nothing about the Way but that it is only hearsay. How do YOU know that? I am a "fallen away" NeoCat as well. I left within the past two years. I have commented infrequently, and now you assume that I don't know what I am talking about? Hmmm. Many Neo communities are strong at birth, but slowly they lose strength, and people leave, and communities get combined. What kind of fruit is that you were talking about again?
      By the way, fruits can also be poisonous...did you know that? I love asparagus and grew it one time at my grandfathers ranch. What I didn't know until I read the instructions on the seed package is that the asparagus is good, but the fruit from the plant is poisonous. Also several popular fruit such as apricots and cherries are yummy, but the "core" (the pit or seed or stone) is toxic. Some fruit by itself is poisonous and should be avoided, such as jatropha, daphne, and european spindle. They are pretty, look good, but are poisonous. And most obvious of all for Catholics is the forbidden fruit that Adam and Eve ate in violation of God's will. Yes it was fruit, but that didn't make eating it valid. So please don't think the Neocats have a lock on fruits.
      But let's do talk fruits for a moment further, if you are willing? You talk about vocations...more Guamanians have been sent away by the way that ordained in the way. One priest ordained, and two neocat, maybe three sent to other seminaries never to return to serve Guam again. What type of fruit do you call that? How many men like Aaron have a true calling to serve their diocese, but are refused because they willing not follow the path of Kiko? What kind of fruit is that? Several women formed in the way, but rather than serving the people of Guam they are sent to New Jersey. What kind of fruit is that? Janet B wrote about how there are so many coming into the Church every year thru parish based RCIA programs, yet most of the Neo focus is on pulling Catholics away from the parish. What kind of fruit is that?
      Having been in the Neo myself, I know that you are probably a very well intentioned individual, but I challenge you to start thinking for yourself, rather than letting your catechists think for you. Ask yourself whether what you have been told is the whole picture, or just a selected slice your leaders want you to see. Be careful, because the pride which many in the way exhibit is what causes these problems...you only see the good, and fail to see the whole picture. Yes, there are fruits, but some of them are poison.
      If a large conglomerate came to Guam and set up a huge farming operation in our central highlands, many would say that is great. Just think of all the fruits! But then later we found out that most of the money derived from that venture was not distributed, but hoarded among a greedy few. And then we realized that only a fraction of the fruit produced stayed on Guam, most was shipped where the greedy conglomerate could make a higher profit, and Guam still had to import fruit for its own needs.
      We could all agree that fruits were indeed produced, but there was very little benefit to the people of Guam. And now ask yourself honestly, is there a similarity between this hypothetical and our situation on Guam with the Neocatechumenal Way?
      Many of us feel that there is and that our Shepherd, Guiseppi, Carmen and Kiko are the parallel to the conglomerate.
      If you understand how we feel, maybe you will have a different perspective. But it takes personal courage and strength on your part to break away and see the truth that is revealed by this blog.

      WE TOO SEE THE FRUITS, BUT MUCH OF IT IS POISON OR OVER-EXAGGERATED.

      I respectfully sign this,
      Glad to be back to Holy Mother Church!

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  5. To the neocats who say that people like Tim and those who don't know the Way shouldn't judge because they don't anything but through hearsay. I want to ask what about me and other of your fellow brother and sisters who are in the Way or were in it. What can you say to us who have been a part of it for many years? I implore you brothers to please see that Tim and other non-neocats are trying to show us the errors of the Way. If a brother is doing something wrong isn't it our duty as a community to help them? Please do not harden your hearts.

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    1. What help from the community. You demand from us, make us feel as though the community is the only one that exists. You try every which way to make us feel guilty by our no show. You continue to say we are abandoning The Lord. We have a life and it is not with the community and I still,feel the presence of The Lord.

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    2. Glad to be Back to Holy Mother ChurchFebruary 14, 2014 at 10:33 AM

      Amen! Thanks for those clear words. Let us pray that others who still feel trapped in the Way will gather the strength to see their way out. It can be very oppressive, the pressure to stay in even when you feel like you no longer should continue. I struggled with this for more than a year, until a good friend asked why I always seemed on edge. They were one of the few friends I had back then who was not in the Way. Our catechist warned us to only associate with other brothers and sisters, because they know what we are going through. But none of them seemed to care about me, but only that I should stay in...have courage, they would say.
      Well, after my "outside" friend noticed my depression, I finally had that courage and I decided to leave. It was not easy. I was constantly hounded by my catechist to come back, he didn't want me to lose the Lord.
      But what I found was The Lord, not Kiko's version of the Lord. And one of the benefits/fruits of leaving my community was that my family relationships improved as well. My catechist has actually told people that they must decide between their community and their family. The community will be your new family. Some fruit?
      So, I am out, and it feels so liberating. I hope others who are out will speak about the fact that life does exist after the Way.
      Oh, and by the way, my finances have finally gotten back on track. My wife is so happy that I am not alwaysforced to pay for other peoples expenses (primarily the youth) when they cannot afford to pay the hotel bills, flower bills, etc.
      God gave us free will. Kiko tries to steal it. Do not let him.

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    3. Did your catechists ever use the figure of Abraham leaving his kinfolk when asking you to decide between the Way and our family?

      Kiko has said, "We have never listened to the word of Abraham: Leave your country and your kinsfolk and start walking."

      Day 12 of the initial catechesis is dedicated to Abraham, I believe.
      Day

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    4. It wasn't so much the word abandoned. Father Pius asked me if I would give up everything and come follow him. When I asked how about my children and my husband, he asked the same question. My answer was, I was entrusted to care for my children and husband. His reply was follow me for The Lord will provide for them. Answer was no! I saw this evil smirk on his face as if saying you will be damned forever.

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    5. I'm glad to see other Neocats are giving voice to the problems they faced in the Way. It can be difficult to speak about our experiences because of the tight grip our catechists had on us. Especially the ones catechized by Fr. Pius who creates a climate of fear when you're around him. I hope and pray that our brothers and sisters in the Way will see the grave errors being promoted and leave. There is happiness outside the Way.

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  6. Fellow Catholics, for now, you know me as Maria (yes, an anonymous) but I, too, will eventually reveal and identify my voice when that time arises. Mine will be amongst those voices going to Rome and to the Apostolic Nuncio. BTW, these are why we reject the neo and its hierarchy’s ways, not the individual members who are subject to what they espouse.


    1. First and foremost, I am fed up with the disregard by this Shepherd and the neo community for the Liturgical instructions from Rome for the reverent postures required toward that which all Catholics are taught and devoutly believe to be the Flesh and Blood of Jesus Christ, Himself, and which we regard to be the Catholic universal belief that it is the Sum and Summit of our Catholic Faith – The Sacrament of Holy Eucharist.

    2. I am fed up of continually seeing this Shepherd’s demonstration of his LACK OF GENUINE love and LACK OF REVERENCE for the Holy Eucharist by his REFUSAL to promote, defend AND REQUIRE of the neo community the proper posture and manner of the distribution and reception of Holy Communion, taught and promulgated by the Church.

    3. I am fed up over the scandalously poor role model and example this Shepherd has been to the flock with his disregard toward following the Church’s teachings about respect for and obedience to the Magisterium, when this Shepherd demonstrated an arrogant disrespect and refusal to obey and conform to the Magisterium’s instructions to change the manner in which the neo community distributes and receives Holy Communion; his refusal and disobedience continues, even today.

    4. I am fed up with how The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is disrespectfully abused and misused as an opportunity and instrument for a recruitment commercial for the neos in the midst of The Holy Mass! We Faithful Catholics recognize, understand and follow in our parishes the reasons these acts of disrespect should never be done, at any point and time, DURING the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass!

    5. I am fed up with my observations of this Shepherd showing NO GENUINE interest NOR GENUINE concern FOR EVERY SINGLE SHEEP and MEMBER of the Catholic Church of this Diocese under him, EXCEPT for the newly-found neo community of which he is an avid and devoted member of – thus showing favoritism, an unbecoming trait of one who should be a Leader and Shepherd to all.

    6. I am fed up with how our parishes are robbed of our contributions to our Parish and forced to give toward the existence and upkeep of a Seminary serving not our needs nor the formation of our sons, but primarily for foreigners who are then sent off to serve other dioceses of the world; additionally, I am fed up with the way we are misled and lied to about the use of the monies taken from our parishes – meant mainly for the survival of a movement we do not want, do not accept, nor want to support. Contributions should be a voluntary choice and not imposed under duress.

    7. Finally, but not the least, I am fed up with the CONFUSION, THE MISUNDERSTANDINGS AND DIVISIONS created by the existence of an exclusive neo community; and fed up with the fact that all this things continue to be escalated by not only this Shepherd’s membership in but especially his practice and espousal of “neo ways” which we know to contradict with our Catholic Catechetical Teachings -- especially in the neo’s refashioning of the Celebration of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and on the neo’s altering of the distribution and reception of Holy Communion.

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    1. You said many but also repetitive and none. did you know Jesus Christ was hated by the Pharisees? Hmmmmmmmm T

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    2. Anon at 3:54 pm

      Perfect. More name calling. I suggest you return to the one true church and learn what real humility is. Makes me cry for your soul.

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    3. From the time this blog was started, many against the NCW had called names worse than 3:35pm has. And not only that, they speak of the general population (all members) when doing so.

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  7. Thank you Maria for your comment. It is about respect for the Holy Eucharist . It is about respect for the teaching authority of the church.

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  8. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    1. I deleted this comment. If you want to post it again, please find another way to say it with out bringing in children. Thank you.

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