Saturday, March 8, 2014

A FRIEND CALLED TONIGHT...

A friend called tonight. She was distressed. She had gone to confession to a priest at the Cathedral. For her penance, the priest told her to "go to a talk" in the St. Therese Chapel on Monday night. 

My friend did not respond. She knew what the talk was. She had already spent a few years in the Neocatechumenal Way and had left, and not without some pain. She didn't want to go to the "talk". 

When she didn't answer, the priest asked her if that was "okay". Never having been presented with such a "penance" before and fearing that she would not receive absolution if she did not consent, she replied: "I am at your mercy". 

The priest then told her to consider the penance (attending the talk) "a mercy from me to you." He then absolved her.

My friend called because she was disturbed. She felt that her sins would not be forgiven if she did not go to the talk. 

This isn't the first time I've heard this, and the same scenario was posted elsewhere as a comment on this blog, but it was the first time I heard it first hand from someone I know. 

She decided to go to confession tomorrow to another priest, and this time, not a neo. 

Aside from the coercion to attend the neocatechumenal meeting, a coercion in the context of a confession, which is already a matter for grave concern, the priest tells her that this penance is a MERCY! And a mercy from him personally. 

I honestly do not know how to conclude this post without an obscenity. So I'll just conclude. But WTF?

48 comments:

  1. Couldn't be Fr Michael, he is in Hawaii!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The confession was Wednesday night.

      Delete
    2. It was Wednesday night at the Cathedral before the Ash Wednesday evening Mass? Is that what happened? How horrible!

      Delete
    3. It was Father Michael Jucatan, the new Neo priest.

      Delete
  2. I sure am glad it wasn't me, cause I would have given him an earful where the entire congregation would have heard it!

    ReplyDelete
  3. OH! The confession was Wednesday night (Ash Wednesday?) — thanks for that clarification. Since the date of the post was Saturday, March 8 and the title was "A Friend Called Tonight …" I was really freaking out because I thought it happened tonight because Saturdays are my usual confession days!

    Still — I think it's messed up that the priest (1) would use the confessional as an opportunity to force someone to attend heretical catechesis; and (2) thinks that the penance is a mercy from him to the penitent!!

    ReplyDelete
  4. If I were her I would have walked out without comment. This reminds me of a very liberal, intellectual diocesan priest professor in another country years ago. When in confession I mentioned a sexual sin, he gave me a very lengthy sociological lecture giving examples of different nationalities and their attitudes towards sexual behavior. I was totally freaked out and wanted to leave but felt I was not allowed to leave the confessional without the priest's permission. I also wondered if he were going to add me to his list of examples to future penitents. I was profoundly upset by the experience for years. Eventually I shared the experience with a trusted conservative Jesuit in the states and he said the priest was wrong to treat me that way and that if anything like that were ever to occur again to just say, "This isn't working, Father. Thank you." And to just leave. Priests sometimes don't realize how spiritually and emotionally vulnerable we are in the confessional. The archbishop should tell his neo priests not to spiritually abuse penitents like this. I say most of my confessions to the archbishop and he has never told me to attend any of the NCW meetings.

    ReplyDelete
  5. A priest told me after telling him my sins that I must talk to my cathechists about them for absolution. I thought to myself. Isn't that what I went to you for? It's so sad this is happenning to people.

    ReplyDelete
  6. May we suggest you challenge this priest and threaten him with media attention. Once we have determined his name he will be exposed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sorry to say I got to mass a little late on Ash Wednesday. I arrived at the Cathedral after the mass started at 7PM and was surprised to see that the confessional was still lighted. And it stayed lit all during the mass. I saw with my very own eyes that it was Fr Michael, the new priest, who was in the confessional during mass, and was even there for a while after mass. I was talking to one of the deacons after mass when he finally came out. It was him hearing confessions that night.

      Delete
  7. If he did that to me I would have blasted the shit out of the kid and made sure people heard. That pries is a disgrace to the cathedral. Monsignor James you better do something or we will have you in the media in the coming days.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Msgr. James has nothing to do with the actions of the priest. This is a matter to be brought up to the Archbishop! Msgr. James did not assign him to the cathedral, the Archbishop did!

      This is a Neo priest so this is the Archbishop's problem.

      Delete
  8. Talked to a neo priest about this. He informed me a neo priest can say what ever he wants to a person in confession. He informed me this person better shut up or they will rot in hell. The person should be thankful they god divine mercy through this priests kindness. Because it sound this person is a serious sinner not walking the way. Better walk the way than end up in hell.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did your neo priest REALLY say that this person had better "shut up or rot in hell"??! That doesn't sound very Fatherly to me. And if I were you I'd be careful about listening to the words of a priest who speaks in such a manner! And you're calling her a serious sinner?! Look who's handing out persecutions now!

      Delete
    2. The two neo priests I heard talk about rotting in hell ( exact words) just went to the mission lands. So now there are some replacements. Rotting in hell sounds like a course in the RMS. Too many with the same words and in the same accent! Who is teaching in this lingo?

      Delete
  9. Wow...your sins can only be forgiven if you join the Neo! Blessed Mother, please help us.

    ReplyDelete
  10. its heretical in your eyes, there is nothing wrong with it in view of the priest, who ever it might be.
    Why do you even go to a priest for confession if you do not believe in the person of Christ? Persona Christi.
    I am not saying your informant is a liar and not wanting to place judgement on her but could it be that she entered the confessional on the wrong note.
    Is a priest wrong in offering as an act of penance that one should attend a catechesis? Ive been in many confessionals where a priest offered me a penance that helped directly with the sins I had confessed for, many penances beyond the traditional 10 Lords Prayers, 10 Hail Marys.

    The Sacrament of Penance was handed down through the ministry of the church. Christ commissioned the Apostles to do as he did. Just as Father has sent Christ, He sent them.
    We are to believe that this authority was given to the apostles and handed down through the ages, If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.
    When I confess to a Priest, I believe I am confessing to God. So whatever words are shared with me, I hear them as words from God. What ever penance is extended to me, I believe is an act of love from God.
    Penance not only allows us to make amends with God but to also serve our spiritual good. The penance does not only have to be prayer, but can be an action, a work of mercy, a service to another and even sacrifices. The penance should be a remedy to sin and a help to the renewal of life.

    This penance is wrong in your opinion because of your judgements of the NCW.

    Mary Lou:After reading your quick response, I honestly do not know how to conclude this post without an obscenity. So I'll just conclude. But WTF?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The very fact that the Neocatechumenal Way continues to disregard the instructions laid out for it in its own Statute as regards the distribution of Holy Communion places the NCW in opposition to the rest of the Church. Your founder personally opposed the pope when the instruction was issued. The Archbishop personally mocked the pope when the instruction was issued. And your continued practice of it makes your eucharist illicit.

      This is not my opinion. This is fact. And it is the fact you keep trying to run from. The young woman had experienced the NCW, had come to know its errors, had escaped it after much pressure and pain, and now was being told to go back to it under pain of not having her sins absolved. And you're saying she entered the confessional on a "wrong note"? Thank you for giving us more insight into the heart of the Neocatechumenal Way. We hope we get more comments like yours. We have been looking for something to get Rome's attention. Up till now we have only had low level spats. But a priest abusing the sacrament of confession is Rome-level stuff. And your response helps.

      Delete
    2. Did I say,
      "she entered the confessional on a wrong note"? it
      I did mention,
      "could it be that she entered the confessional on a wrong note".

      You attach your own interpretation to every thing, which is good, but you tend to jump the gun in doing so. But yes, this is the inefficiency of any blog. Instead of encouraging letters to the nuncio, you should just go ahead and give him a call. Better yet, Call the Pope. It will all be an account of your definition of liturgical abuse. Which is heavily infected by your own desires and iterests, your personal preferences.

      Your jungle needs a wild fire. To come and burn down the old trees that serve no purpose. Rid the jungle of the vines that are choking the new sprouts that want to shoot up from the ground. Yes, I gave it to you Tim.
      I am a regular Roman Catholic who for years admired your willingness to defend our church. I now realize, you are not defending the church, but your own church. Atleast your own definition of church.
      Get over it, your pride is killing you. I am keeping tabs of every word that you post. Every comment that you have posted that goes against what God would want you to say or do. You are Catholic by Book and you fail to be Catholic by Heart. Just as the recent Gospel encourages to do. To do things from the Heart. That inner room is where God wants to meet us. Not in the street corners or roof tops, which by the way, your acceptance of being a "spokesperson" for Aaron and Father Paul sort of fits this description.

      Im tired of seeing you and many others on this blog extend so much hate towards the members of the NCW. They are reacting/defending to something that has helped them. You do the same.
      You will tell me, if I dont like it then dont come to the jungle, stay away. Well, today I thank God for this Jungle, because it has exposed the true colors of people whom I thought to be examples of true faith. Foreigners who I appreciated so much because they have come to Guam to make it their home and to become witnesses to the Faith, this was you. It aint no longer.

      Delete
    3. In persona Christi?
      "this is a mercy from me to you"? and you say "The penance should be a remedy to sin"
      This penance to go to something that teaches heresy?
      you really going to lie and deny that kiko teaches that the current Catholic way of doing things is S***?
      " To come and burn down the old trees that serve no purpose." Here we see the true motive of the NCW to burn down the church that Christ built so you can have one built by kiko! What you fail to realize is that by following this theology of the NCW you are calling Jesus a Liar! and denying that the Holy Spirit has been and will continue to guide the one true church that has existed from the beginning with the apostles.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous (March 9, 2014 at 2:19 AM/2:53PM): You claim that you are a “regular Roman Catholic” and then accuse Tim of being “Catholic by Book” who fails “to be Catholic by Heart”. It sounds as though you have been drinking the same brand of Kiko Argüello Kool Aid (aka “KAKA”) that the rabid NeoCats do. Like the NeoCats who drink the “KAKA” so deeply, it appears as though you view any questions, concerns and frustrations regarding the activities of the Three on the Hill and the NeoCats as “HATE.” You claim to have been “keeping tabs” on every word that Tim posts. Do you also “keep tabs” on the words of NeoCats, like the one who described Tim as the “son of Lucifer”? Or is that acceptable, in your mind?

      Like you, “I thank God for this Jungle, because it has exposed the true colors of people whom I thought to be examples of true faith” — like the Three on the Hill who were supposed to be spiritual leaders of all Catholics. Instead of nurturing us spiritually, they have failed miserably, are MEMBERS of a cult that promotes heresies and continue to try and force-feed those heresies by giving free reign to poorly-formed NeoCat priests to use the Sacrament of Penance to coerce people to join the movement. I was hoping and praying that the priest who did this was someone who had gone off the deep end, but after reading some of the comments on this post it’s clear that his questionable behavior was not an isolated incident.

      Stop drinking the “KAKA,” Anonymous (March 9, 2014 at 2:19 AM/2:53PM) before you change from a “regular Roman Catholic” into a NeoCat … unless, of course, you’re already a NeoCat telling another lie, adding to the HUGE Web of Lies that has been woven by the Three on the Hill.

      Delete
  11. Most cellphones have voice recorder, activate it before entering the confessional and expose these plotting devils, the bad ones of course.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Trivia of the day; who said "hell is paved with the skulls of priests, with bishops as the signpost"

    ReplyDelete
  13. Abuse of the sacrament of penance. Rome has a special office to deal with the abuses of this sacrament. This person Wednesday night is not the only one. Another neo priest on Guam gave his blessing to a gay life style if kept quiet between neo members.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello if this is true....it sounds like you dont understand the church position on that lifestyle. There was once a Guest Speaker Priest, a convert, who came on island and told the congregation that "gays" are sick. Then you have the local diocesan priest who invited this convert priest on island, now waving all the colorful flags around his parish. Where as I see it, he regularly accepts these couples and often goes out to eat with them in groups. What am I trying to say? Those who choose this lifestyle need to be treated in a compassionate way. They need to be brought to an understanding of how God created them and why he created them. This must be done with patience. Remember, claiming yourself as a gay individual is not the sin itself. Engaging in the gay tendencies is what the Lord forbids. So, to call out a priest on this issue is immature.

      Delete
    2. If you reread the comment above, the issue is not the gay "individual" or a person with a same-sex orientation, the issue is a "lifestyle". Let me know if I need to explain further.

      Delete
  14. Here in the united states a bishop appoints an associate pastor to the pastor of the parish. The personal board look at the needs of the parish and people involved. The pastor must agree to accepting the associate pastor. Now I am asking was. There a consultation between the archbishop and Monsignor James on the appointment of his associate pastor. Why was a neo priest accepted in the cathedral. Or did archbishop Apuron just appoint without consultation. This could be the way it went.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Archbishop IS the pastor of the Cathedral Basilica, not Msgr. James. Msgr. James is just the rector.

      Delete
  15. Brothers. If you walk the way, you are walking with Jesus. If you walk with Jesus in the neo Community you are saved today. If you eat the bread of the Eucharist from our table you are saved. If you follow our way you are saved. There may be a hell, but if your walking no need to,fear hell. All you need do, is walk the way with Jesus,follow the instructions, and your saved. Very simple to understand.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Brother please look within yourself and use your brain instead of blindly obeying your catechists. The way is not going to save you and just because you walk doesn't mean you have a ticket to heaven! The greatest saints didn't walk in the way and yet they have a place in heaven.

      Delete
    2. Anon 11:51 , interesting thing is that those are the same things David Koresh and Jim jones told their followers.

      Delete
  16. Studying the comments what we notice is the central problem. We have an organization on Guam today that considers itself above canonical law. This is the heart of the problem. It considers itself above church law because the archbishop allows it to happen. In other diocese where neo are local bishops do not allow neo to act as they do here on Guam. Given this situation, and with Guam, being a small traditional conservative island community, which has invaded our island culture and people, showing no respect to culture, operating to gain our lands, property, and finances, certainly this will be a major cause of disunity. It was a poor decision of the archbishop to have allowed this in the first place. The Archdiocese now needs an aux bishop who is not a neo to help archbishop Apuron restore order and unity to Guam, as the situation is now beyond apurons power. He is no longer governing this archdioce.

    ReplyDelete
  17. It is lent. How can you expect Catholics to avail of the sacrament of penance this lent period when members of the neo clergy are now using the confession to instil psychological blackmail into the minds of the cathedral people. This is a serious problem. Archbishop Apuron, are you going to allow others to be insulted blackmailed by your neo priests. You may allow it, but we will not.

    ReplyDelete
  18. If they are so quick to leverage the Sacrament of Penance for their sectarian ends, just think how tempted they must be to do the same with their own, with great confidence that no follower of Kiko will disobey or bring it to the jungle.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Your right chuck. What garbage are they telling people within their own community that will not post in the junglewatch. How much psychlogical blackmail are the priests giving their members. We already learnt one neo priest Has told two gay guys okmfor them to be together just keep it quiet. That is not catholic teaching.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Sad to also confirm that neo priests have been asking for money inside the confession to support them. Called a priest friend of ours in San Francisco who is not neo, he said if true , this is a very serious sin, which needs to be reported to Rome.

    ReplyDelete
  21. All the priests of Guam should become neo. This is the wish of archbishop Apuron he has told us so. All priests must be neo. If they do not like neo then they should seek another bishop to sponsor them. To us it is very clear. Support neo or leave Guam.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I have never heard of a priest giving something like this out as a penance. I would imagine it was misunderstood and it was a recommendation and not the penance given which is well within the right of any priest to say. So, let's calm the lunch mob please.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Let's review. You are welcome to call the woman a liar, but she did not misunderstand him, and this is not the first recounting of such a penance. The priest did not ask her if she preferred another penance. When the woman did not respond, he asked her if it was "okay?" Since the priest did not give her an option, she was concerned that she would not receive absolution if she did not consent. So she only replied "I am at your mercy."

      It was not her fault that she did not question the priest or ask for another penance. This isn't something a penitent should have to do. Sadly, it's not even the priest's fault that he handled this badly and did not present another option, but only told her that her penitential assignment was a "mercy from me to you." It's not his fault because these men are not being trained properly as we are all beginning to see. They are being herded through the seminary lickety split so the Archbishop can 1) get his numbers up for Rome to see, and 2) wreak revenge on the rest of us.

      Delete
    2. So the Priest asked her, if it was okay?
      She was given an option. Why didnt she respond? Instead she chose to keep quiet and leave the confessional confused and unclear. Then she decided out of all people to call Tim and get his opinion. What was she thinking? Tim would give her an unbiased opinion? Wrong, wrong, wrong!
      Brothers if you have a discrepancy with another, clear it between the two of you before going and bringing in a third party. Common Sense.

      Delete
    3. So Anonymous, since you have a discrepancy with me, let us clear it between the two of us as you have just recommended. Call the Cathedral Gift Shop at 479-6279. Leave your name and number. I will call you back. Common sense. Waiting.

      Delete
  23. Tim is correct. Apuron is concerned only with numbers and money. In Rome what matters is how many people and how much money. If Apuron gives numbers and money from Guam he may get what he wants, a red hat.

    ReplyDelete
  24. To get noticed in Rome you have to have numbers and money. However, this past year under Francis, the climate and culture is beginning to change. Under jp2 and b16 Apuron could fly as high as he liked with his plan. But not so true now, if the mind of Francis continues in the next pope, Apuron will not find it so easy. If tim continues junglewatch, the people express their concerns, the diocesan priests protect the island, it will be these external factors, that lead to removing the neo in time. It will take about ten years to reduce the movement, leaving a small group that are in order. Today Guam is a free for all, where the archbishop has no control over the local church.

    ReplyDelete
  25. In fairness it is not so much the priest who heard the confession. The problem is it is the lack of formation which the guy received. We have learnt that the guy concerned has a limited capacity of theological insight and pastoral practice. It is not his fault, he was ordained without completing all the studies, and had no pastoral experience prior to ordination. It now manifests itself after ordination.

    ReplyDelete
  26. At the very, very, very, minimum, at least there was a priest to hear confessions.

    I am not sure how to analyze this, or even if I should since all sacraments performed by a priest, no matter the heart of the priest, is ex opere operato, therefore valid. Importantly, he has to say these words:
    I absolve you from your sins
    in the name of the Father, and of the Son, +
    and of the Holy Spirit.


    The penance that was attached is still deeply concerning and troubling. I hope it's not stock.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Ric. You don't understand. We in the neo are the saved people of Israel. We who walk the way are saved already. Our eternity has begun in the neo community. This is how it is in heaven. We just eat the bread , that is blessed for us as a symbol of the lord. The bread will allow us to walk the way. The wine mixed with the bread in our mouth gives us strength to be neo for ever.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't not think this comment is from a member.

      Delete
    2. I agree. someone is playing games here. Whoever you are, this is not a game.

      Delete

Recommendations by JungleWatch