Saturday, May 17, 2014

FOR THOSE WHO THINK I AM THE CAUSE OF DIVISION

(Note: The uploaded full report found at the link below has been fixed so that it is fully viewable.)

In December of 2010, the clergy of the Archdiocese of Agana met for a multi-day study to get to the bottom of the problems of this Archdiocese. Coordinating the study were representatives from CARA (Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate) which is based at Georgetown University.

The study produced a 69 page report, but as several members of the clergy have shared: NO CHANGES. In fact, as you can see from what we have documented on this blog: THINGS ARE WORSE. 

So for those who think that I am the cause of the problem, feel free to read the entire report which was published three years before there was a JungleWatch.

Here is a link to the full report. Below are the Major Findings.

Major Findings

• In survey responses, about three in ten Agana clergy describe unity of the clergy of the Archdiocese as being “strong,” a proportion somewhat smaller than the average for other dioceses that have participated in Cultivating Unity. One-third describe unity between the Archbishop and the clergy as “strong,” again a proportion slightly lower than in other Cultivating Unity dioceses. 

• The great majority of survey respondents, more than nine in ten, report having close friends among fellow clergy of the Archdiocese and say they enjoy attending liturgies with other clergy. However, slightly fewer than half perceive a sense of collegiality among clergy of the Archdiocese, and even fewer believe that morale is high among the clergy.

• When presented with a list of several potential challenges to clerical unity, many responding priests and deacons select issues surrounding relationships between the clergy and Archbishop, including: negativity of clergy toward the Archbishop, lack of openness or communication from the Archbishop, and lack of support of the clergy by the Archbishop. In response to an open-ended question about challenges to clerical unity in the Archdiocese, some explicitly discuss the need to improve relationships between the clergy and the Archbishop.

• In many dioceses, the issue of too much work is seen as an important challenge to unity, but this is not the case for Agana. Agana clergy tend to work fewer hours per week than the average for other dioceses and are less likely to report problems related to workload. Despite presumably facing fewer constraints on their time, Agana clergy do not socialize with one another more frequently than priests in other Cultivating Unity dioceses. Many Agana respondents also express the concern that many of their fellow clergy are not doing their fair share of work.

• In response to the open-ended question about challenges to clerical unity in the Archdiocese, many also point to tensions between Neocatechumenal clergy and others. However, other survey responses suggest that differences on doctrine, ecclesiology, and related issues are perceived as less challenging by Agana clergy than those in other Cultivating Unity dioceses.

• Asked about positive factors in the Archdiocese on which greater unity can be built, many respondents say they share a sense of common mission and enthusiasm for ministry. Some also emphasize the importance of open communication and working together in ministry.

40 comments:

  1. Curious to know why the study was ordered. Was it to improve relationships or to fulfill an obligation?

    Obviously there was a problem long ago. Even as parishioners we could see the favoritism the Archbishop bestowed on his NCW sons versus his Diocesan priests.

    Those against any truth, even documented, will try and pit this whole issue on Jungle Watch, but we all know better.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The study was ordered because the situation had become unbeatable and hostilities were breaking out amongst the clergy. The study accomplished nothing because the Archbishop is secure in his belief that the NCW is the new order of the church and that the old must pass away.

      Delete
    2. Is the new order fr. Edivaldo FB post baptizing infants by total immersion holding bare babies in the air and dancing around to song of Israel?? Hope not.

      Delete
    3. Tim, who ordered the study? And why hasn't the one who ordered the study done anything about the troubling findings?

      Delete
    4. The study was requested by the clergy. There were some things learned... The clergy on the hill learned what they needed to do to have total power over the Diocese.This is why neo (proper use of the term meaning new) priests are immediately thrust into the positions of pastors. It is further evidence of the attitude that if your not on board you will soon be on the chopping block. It is also evident that any meetings called for by the clergy at this point is pointless. There will be no understanding/peace until this thing blows up!
      Pray for your clergy!

      Delete
  2. Thank you Tim for this important research report. The paper published is confirming other findings of problems into the internal dynamics of relationships within the archdiocese of Agana. Before the arrival of the NCW it seems that relationship problems between the clergy and the archbishop existed just became greater intense after their arrival in the archdiocese. However, we have become aware of some serious other issues , not relating to fr. Paul, or the NCW, which this report also confirms.a picture is beginning to form.
    Why this blog is not concerned with priest issues with the archbishop, the comments left by your readers manifest to us priests may also be leaving comments. This is why we have been following junglewatch. Thank you for this important document you have released today.

    ReplyDelete
  3. What a revealing document . Thank you Mr. Rohr for your invaluable service . Publishing the enclosed research paper supports other findings into the archdiocese. A picture is forming.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Tim, your prejudice against the Neocatechumenal Way is not justified by this old and stale recycled material. Graduates from the RMS has changed and still are changing the make-up of priestly opinion on Guam very quickly.
    Your bias against the Way has much more to do with the conspiracy theories frenchie talks about in his posts. This conspiracy theories originate in Protestant thoughts against Rome from the 19th century. They reveal a deep rooted hatred against the Catholic Church.
    But somehow times, they-are-a-changin... The Archbishop of Vienna is praising Conchita Wurst and calls for compassion and tolerance for him.
    http://www.vienna.at/schoenborn-erfreut-ueber-conchita-wursts-song-contest-sieg/3963959
    Now you wanna prove that Archbishop Schonborn has anything to do with the Neocatechumenal Way. But he has not!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's pretty funny. I have no clue what Frenchie is talking about. But thanks for the compliment.

      For the record...again, my "bias" against the NCW has to do with your continued persistence to follow a magisterium different from ours.

      Diana explained it well, showing us that your magisterium bypasses bishop and priest and relies entirely on secret messages Kiko supposedly receives from the Pope and then passes them on to catechists.

      Funnier still is that you speak like there is some sort of requirement to comply with a norm when you won't even conform to your own statute.

      So yes, I continue to hash and rehash because you continue in to give the Catholic Church the finger.

      Schonburn???

      Delete
    2. 5-17, 10:24AM – You post: “Graduates from the RMS has changed and still are changing the make-up of priestly opinion on Guam very quickly.” In that claim you pose that, because the kikos on Guam are mass-graduating (assembly-line-style) instant RSM graduates on Guam there is now a positive “changed opinion of the priests on Guam” in contrast to what was gathered and documented in the CARA major findings which revealed a sad state of affairs within our Archdiocese because of lack of top-down communication, of poor top-down camaraderie, lack of top-down relationship and poor leadership, thus the findings of clerical disunity and disharmony and the negative opinions, then -- but not any more.

      Such cock-eyed, simpleton reasoning!! What desperation you all show in your need to grasp at anything that comes to your minds – as nincompoopish a reasoning as it may be! If that is your reasoning behind your alleged “changed priestly opinions” then you certainly will also accept and understand the reasoning I posit below as an example of how you all rationalize and as example of how your styles and levels of reasoning work; here goes:

      "The majority of priests’ opinion have now changed on Guam just as an 8oz glass of pure, crystalline water was altered and changed when we poured into it (an ounce at a time) pure, black indelible ink. The water thus, changed color and continues changing into a deeper black-ink-colored water and is no longer a pure, crystalline water; do you see?"

      Delete
    3. These RMS ordained priest WILL NEVER change the opinions of most diocesan priests. The only ones truly faithful are Father Adrian, Msgr. D.C. Quitugua and the Archbishop.

      I wonder how many local clergies are now seeing the light but not being pro active in the celebrations anymore. How many men have left the deaconate formation not because of their commitment to the formation, but because of Father Adrian?

      How many walking the way, left their ministry from the church because the priest told them " I am the Pastor/Priest, do not tell me what to do? When Those walking in the Way decide to quit being lectors, Eucharistic Ministers, CCD teachers, etc. because they didn't get their WAY, is this being a true fruit of the NCW. I call it abandoning ship! How can one decide to quit serving the church.
      To do service in the church is to do service to God.

      This is just one of the many examples of the hypocritical act of people walking in the way. I have mentioned about a mother who has a handicap child, yet she mimics other handicap children. This mother walks in the way. I never mentioned her name either so as not to mar the reputation of her husband who is very close to the church and the Archbishop! FRUITS PRODUCED but do not practice Christian values.

      let us just say, that there are people walking the way who are really humble and sincere; there are those who are fanatics; and there are those who are there just for the sake of being there.

      Delete
    4. @ Anon 4:08

      Wow, that's deep, I really like it. Kinda like how mold can completley damage dry wall as it grows into almost every inch of it. lol

      Delete
    5. 6:59PM -- you got it!

      Delete
    6. It is not old and recycled because the problems were never addressed and corrected!
      So the bishop's solution, instead of confronting the problem head on, is to dilute the council so that it mostly consists of NCW priests.
      This is not dealing with the problem at all. How sad for our church!

      Delete
    7. "Dilute".....EXACTLY! It is a slow process, but they are diluting the clergy count on Guam.......giving local boys who refuse the NCW a hard time so that they give up and not enter the seminary....they won't entertain men who don't want to be in the NCW! IT IS BLATANT sabotage!!

      Delete
    8. To anonymous at 10.24am.....whoa!!! I feel flattered..... I guess I graduated (humbly) to Tim's level, and Tim also as become a conspiracy theorist.......I am speechless.!!!!
      Well not quite yet.....
      What is going on Tim? I was working all day, so I did not realize it was morons R US day today....Did I miss the memo?
      It looks like all the kikomaniacs are out in force ........ Oops! is this a conspiracy theory as well???? God help us!!!
      It appears like the 17th of May was not a boring day after all....
      Well I suppose I can take one for the team....it would help a little if they would teach reading skills at the RMS and in Kikoland.
      But God works in mysterious ways.
      Enjoy your weekend.
      To my brothers and sisters of the Non Catholic Way, PLEASE: don't drink too much cool aid!!! it is so hard to clean up.... I am not looking forward to the mess.

      Delete
  5. So, according to Diana, you twist words, translate things any which way you can to cause hatred and division! See below from her blog.

    This is the kind of tactics that Fundamentalist Protestants and other hate groups use. They use actual documents, but twist the facts around to incite hatred and division. An example is when Fundamentalists use the actual document
    "Ineffabilis Due" and conclude from that document that the Immaculate Conception was an man-made invention created in 1854 by the Catholic Church.

    So, who is really causing division in the Catholic Church? Well, in the first place, it was not the archbishop who wrote or even spoke of any "presbyter conspiracy." This so-called "presbyter conspiracy" did not come from the NCW. Who was the one who wrote about the "presbyter conspiracy" and used an actual document misleading others into thinking that the NCW should never used the term "presbyter".....when in reality that document was addressed to the NCCB who wanted to change a term in the ordination rite.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So the Neocatechumenal Way casts Fundamentalist Protestants as "hate groups". Hmmmm. The church I belong to simply calls them "separated brethren", and compassionately so. The Fundamentalist Protestants who read this blog will be interested to know what the Neocatechumenal Way thinks of them.

      Curious how the NCW aka Diana separates the NCW from the NCCB. She implies that because the document was addressed to the NCCB it has nothing to do with them. Ummm, Diana, the NCCB is the National Council of Catholic Bishops, the former name of the USCCB, the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops, emphasis on "Catholic".

      But then you have already advised us as to where bishops fit into your hierarchy: absolutely nowhere. And sadly, Archbishop Apuron, merely "Brother Tony" to you, demonstrates this.

      Delete
    2. Please stop giving her traffic! That blog is just a reactionary forum for the desperate kikos. It's so sad over there that it induces pity.

      Delete
    3. Actually, I admire those of you who have the stomach for it. I can hardly stand the snippets I get. But, as shown, they prove useful. So feel free to keep me informed...but not too often. Thanks.

      Delete
    4. Thought I could stomach her blog just to get a good laugh, but I think I was wrong. It's like hanging out with and listening to a know it all kid who's in the 7th grade.

      Delete
    5. By their sources we know that ncw is what Scripture refers as "False prophets". ... ncw according to kiko and translations according to diana, as May 17 4:10PM boasts.

      We will stick to our Roman Catholic Church's Teachings according to Jesus Christ and led by the Magisterium. That is where the Fullness of the Truth of Salvation lies; therefore there absolutely is no need nor is there any reason to change The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass nor Liturgical norms and Practices, either -- unless in arrogance and denial of our Catholic Faith one prefers to follow kiko and the kiko way and be defended by a hopelessly erroneous and confused diana!

      Delete
  6. Tim,

    Was it your intention to block out certain lines in the full report that you posted on scribd, or did you mean to highlight it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for pointing that out. It is fixed now.

      Delete
  7. It does seem that Fr. Cristobal has not contributed to the unity of the priests of the archdiocese simply by the shocking letters and memos that he has sent out to priests. A number of his letters and private memos to the archbishop of Guam have been circulated and raise serious questions as to his understanding of church law.

    ReplyDelete
  8. May be we should ask is there anyone in the archdiocese of Guam that understands canon law. It seems to us that you have a few people on your hill as you say who seem to act regardless of church law, simply to carry out their own agenda.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Tim. The Archbishop had a history in the early days of bringing priests into Guam from the Philippines and other places. Many of these are good solid priests. Is it possible that the Archbishop was looking for something to bring into Guam to increase priest manpower. Did he see this NCW as an answer to help Guam. Only later to discover it is a major source of disunity in the archdiocese.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hardly. And he doesn't see it as disunity. He sees it as the future.

      Delete
    2. Apostolic delegate! Neighboring bishops! USCCB! Holy Father!!!

      Is Anyone listening to our CRYS! M

      Delete
  10. Since we have visitors from Manila, maybe you can repost those letters the Archbishop wrote to the Filipino priests.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Tim. May junglewatch please re post those letters which were published on this page last year sometime to Filipino priests. It is important now that readers of this page begin to connect the dots. Hope you understand what we are doing.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Janet B - MangilaoMay 18, 2014 at 10:32 PM

    Such disunity, and of course no action by the Shepherd. He is happy to have his neo seminarians swoon all over him. To heck with those pesky non-Neo priests. They just do not see the "FRUITS" of the Way. Shame on them!
    I understand the priests paid half of the big cost of this Georgetown study in the hopes that the Archbishop would actually follow some outside party's recommendations. They now know he only listens to kiko and Genario.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Arch A Bishop...swooning, alright! But, you know what? I bet they are suffering now. Feel bad for them. I hope some of them realize it is not all about being persecuted. I hope some of them see what is going on and make good decisions for themselves. That is hard to do when you are very far from home, left your means of earning a living, don't understand the language and are IN A CULT!! There is not freedom of spirit there, that's for sure. Let's pray.

      Delete
  13. Since Cardinal Tagle has confirmed his visit in July, I think a Public Protest will be an excellent opportunity to get the attention of the Nuncio, Rome and the WORLD. Hmmm....anyone?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. At this point? Might just happen.

      Delete
    2. Hope he comes on July 16th, the anniversary of Fr. Paul's sad saga. That would be a good day for peaceful protest! When is His Eminence coming?

      Delete
  14. Cardinal Tagle will be here to be the guest homilist at the 20th Sacerdotal Anniversary of Msgr James Benavente....Guess when is the Ann..Mass? On July 16..Hmm..

    ReplyDelete
  15. July 16 is also the Malesso/Umatac Massacre Memorial Day...Fr Paul is originally from Umatac/South, right?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Feast of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, Agat. AGAT. hmm

      Delete
  16. Just found this. Very interesting and informative thread!

    ReplyDelete

Recommendations by JungleWatch