Sunday, March 26, 2017

WE WILL FIND YOU

By Tim Rohr

The number of persons claiming to have been abused by Archdiocese of Agana clergy now number in the 30's with many more to come, I'm sure. And the law suit amount, now into the 100-plus Million, is rivaling the amounts of much larger dioceses.

As the person who took the public risk of breaking all of this open, not to mention the hundreds of hours of research and writing this cost me, I very much want to see each and ever victim receive justice.

I don't know what that "justice" will eventually look like. For the most part it will have a dollar figure on it and I hope a sincere apology from the perpetrator if they are still alive, and of course from the archdiocesan leadership, now headed by a bishop who had nothing to do with this mess. 

And here is what I want in return. 

I want each and everyone of you (the victims) to sincerely desire the purification and rebuilding of the Catholic Church on Guam. And if possible, I want you to work for it, to join in the efforts to rebuild this Church, and if nothing else, then at least pray for it. How will I know this is done? I won't. It's just what I want. 

BUT I CAN TELL YOU THIS. 

If I EVER get the slightest hint that anyone of these people, ESPECIALLY the persons I personally worked with, that they are only in this for the money, then I will use every ounce of energy that I employed to bring this about in the first place, to take down, discredit, hound, pursue, smear, expose, and otherwise pin you to the wall with Apuron, the Stinking Monk, and the whole filthy lot.

We risked everything to help you. We risked everything to do the right thing. And if you think you can give us "the finger" and walk off with your filthy check, then we will make sure the whole world knows who and WHAT you are. 

For that hundreds of millions of dollars in sex abuse bills will not come from the perverts who used and abused you. It will come from us. From the people who helped you. From the people who worked day and night to get the law enacted so you could see some measure of justice. We were willing to pay that bill to clean our Church. 

So believe me, if you are only in this for the money, WE WILL FIND YOU. 

79 comments:

  1. Pipe down, Tim. So far, the victims have competent legal counsel in Lujan. If their accusations are true, they're entitled to sue for compensatory damages.

    If they're lying, no one needs you. They and Lujan will be countersued by the archdiocese for malicious prosecution.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not talking about lying.

      Delete
    2. Anon 11: PM I totally agree with Tim...

      Delete
  2. Where is this coming from? This entry seems accusatory and threatening. It's as if you already know something, but first you're going to make this statement. The tone is very different from your other entries.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually it is exactly how I proceed. I know something.

      Delete
  3. I agree with Tim. We want justice and dealing but if certain victims have no desire to help in cleaning up the Church of people like Apuron while they compensated, then the lawyers for the archdiocese should argue that the law is unconstitutional or invalid. If found invalid, then the victims are left holding the bag. In short, my message to the victims is this: don't get greedy and don't think that the faithful will automatically support you. We won't.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I believe Mr. Rohr is referring to the fact that Roy Quintanilla and Roland Sondia does not want to testify against Apuron in the canonical trial because it may jeopardize their chances to collect money. It won't. It will only strengthen it, so their refusal is based on other considerations, and that is, they don't give a hoot about the Church, only about collecting as much money as they can. That is not fair to all those who supported them. It's a betrayal.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Quintanilla and Sondia have probably jeopardized their civil cases by refusing to testify in the canonical ones.

      However, most of the abuse victims understandably hate the Church and they won't do anything to assist it. Their personal interests justifiably take precedence.

      Delete
    2. How do you know Roy and Roland do not want to testify? They want to testify but the church is not allowing them to testify with their lawyer present. But Apurons lawyer is present. Does that seem fair? THEY ARE THE VICTIMS! Once again the church wants everything secret. ENOUGH WITH THE SECRETS!!!

      Delete
    3. If there is one thing that has been almost universally clear from each of those who have been interviewed it is that they do not blame the church.

      Delete
    4. Apuron's civil attorney is NOT present at the canonical proceedings. Victims are represented by a canon lawyer from office of Promoters of Justice.

      Delete
    5. Tim, you must have another angle by saying all of this. So, what youre saying is that Roy and Roland are only in it for the money? If you are, then your actions back in May are contradictory. Seems like a desperate attempt to forward your agenda.

      Delete
    6. Did I say anyone's name? My agenda has ALWAYS been to rid this diocese of Apuron and his filth. Nothing has changed.

      Delete
    7. what Church properties you got up sale Tim

      Delete
    8. Well I been trying to get a hold of Tony to list his house in Adacao for sale but he doesn't return my calls. Talk to him lately? LOL.

      Delete
  5. If you look at the list of the victims who filed so far, many are financially comfortable and have led normal lives including marriage, kids, etc. So, why are they only suing and not asking to reconcile and heal with the Church? Perhaps they filed only because they want the money and does not care about anyone else. These kind of so-called victims are not worth supporting.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am not against compensating anyone who has been harmed regardless of how they may have carried on. I am against those who just want to rape us.

      Delete
    2. Fr.Matthew Blockley.March 27, 2017 at 5:49 AM

      I think a number of Victims filed simply because the Church ignored their cries for help. Imagine you have an abuser you report him and you are made out to be the bad guy. There was no justice in turning to the Archdiocese so to file a case was the only option. It remains still the only option for the Archdiocese continues to ignore victims. No victim should turn to the Archdiocese because it is still incompetent to deal with abuse issues. They have made a potential plan but its a flawed plan which has not done enough for victims. Thats why its best to go to David Lujan. He can be trusted.

      Delete
    3. Thanks to Filoni and Hon, we were motivated to get the law enacted. The AOA is working on a better plan that even the attorneys will prefer.

      Delete
    4. So sad, no dollar amount can make you whole again. I'd rather have the strong support of my church members than the money. Money comes and goes, can you ever erase those horrible things with a cash value attached to it? Even moving forward in your life you've encountered obstacles and yet never revealed anything and now. Yes, there are a few other's out there that have been abused by clergy members but would never get their satisfaction. They were robbed of their youth but continue to exist today. That's why they've moved forward.

      Delete
    5. 1:07 you seem to forget that a lot of those church members you canonized put the victims in this disastrous situation. They're the ones who pandered to pervert Apuron for 30 years at the victims'expense. Let them have their compensatory damages. They're long overdue.

      Delete
    6. They will get whatever is decided by the judge or by the settlement fund. Moving on is another matter.

      Delete
  6. One way to separate the real and authentic claims for sex abuse from bogus claims is to amend the law to limit the amount they can collect in damages. In that way, they will not be as greedy and greedy lawyers will be forced to settle reasonably.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Once again I am not talking of bogus claims

      Delete
    2. To anon at 1.31, there are actually case studies on the subject.
      One thing lawyers do, before they agree to take a case like these, is that they interview their potential clients. They verify the facts before they proceed. Since the lawyers are the ones putting up for all the expenses before going to trial, they have very little incentive to bring "bogus" claims.

      In the Archdiocese of Los Angeles with nearly 1000 cases filed, researchers only found 3 bogus claims, and they were elucidated by the lawyers

      Delete
    3. Frenchie is right. No reputable lawyer will risk being disbarred for malicious prosecution.

      Investigating these cases is extremely hard work. It can take over a year before they're scheduled for trial or extrajudicial settlement.

      Los Angeles abuse victims had the best law firms in the business. Superlawyers like Anderson and Boucher got $1 billion in settlements for their clients.








      Delete
  7. Does anyone know the background of Apuron's victims? Are these honorable men? I think we need to find out because, like Tim, I don't want to be led around by the nose by these victims and their lawyers for their own selfish reasons.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Apuron's victims told the truth. I never would have put myself in the line if I wasn't sure.

      Delete
    2. 1:33 they're all related????????

      Delete
  8. As far as I am concerned, Tim should speak louder. He was the most significant factor in getting the law passed and in getting these victims heard. I wouldn't want the victims he fought so hard for to now treat him like dirt, by saying we don't need you Tim anymore, and thanks for the support, while they laugh all the way to the bank with our money.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Fr.Matthew Blockley.March 27, 2017 at 1:50 AM

    I would agree with Tim.
    Firstly this has never been about money.Although the victims should be compensated for years of pain.
    This whole situationis about restoring an Archdiocese/diocese which was led into moral destruction by two bishops that really should never have accepted the Episcopacy due to bad character men with no values whatsoever. But even more shocking is that these men were allowed to continue infecting the church for many years after they were reported to the Holy See. This is not about money it is about restoring dignity integrity to a church which was so badly governed by two deplorable insane bishops. It is about bringing back the church you and I grew up in when we could truly respect our priests bishops. Its about bringing back dignity restoring trust.
    Its not about money. So I support Tim Rohr because I find him to be a man of good character values.
    The same with David Lujan I support David Lujan because he is helping the healing of victims and that is what we want. we want to restore dignity integrity and we want those who abused held responsible in a trial in Guam.
    Without Justice there will never be peace.
    And I honor Archbishop Byrnes for all he is doing because he has good Character Values to be trusted.
    Thank you Tim for all you do for the Church in the Pacific.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I kind of suspect this and I am glad Tim made it clear to those so called victim(s) who is in it for the money that they have something else coming to them.

      Delete
  10. Your anguish is palpable Tim! What a sign it would be if those who have suffered abuse were to build up treasure for themselves in heaven and to offer up their suffering and any compensation to protect the Church! What a prayer that would be.
    Our Lady of Fatima save us from the great apostasy and protect the Church.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 4:57 a.m. that's insane! You sound like one of the brain-dead clericalists who kissed Apuron's fat ass for 30 years.

      Delete
  11. Could it be that the accusers are planning to settle with the archdiocese and in exchange they will retract their statements about AA?

    ReplyDelete
  12. Roy and Roland are willing to give their testimony. But why should they meet with the Canonical and Apuron's lawyers under the churches terms, but not be allowed to have their lawyer present under their terms? THEY ARE THE VICTIMS! Once again the church wants to do things in sercret. Isn't that what got us here in the first place? NO MORE SECRETS!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We do not know w if they are not permitted to have Lujan present. They haven't asked yet.

      Delete
    2. Art. 3. THE EXAMINATION OF WITNESSES
      Can. 1559 The parties cannot be present at the examination of the witnesses unless the judge has decided to admit them, especially when the matter concerns a private good.

      Their advocates or procurators, however, can be present unless the judge has decided that the examination must proceed in secret due to the circumstances of the matters and persons.

      Delete
    3. The judge has to be asked. He wasn't.

      Delete
    4. As I recalled Mr Lujan Told the Media that NONE of the victims are going to testify without his presence since he was asked to leave the room..I'm sure the Victims are only following his advise..

      Delete
    5. Exactly. Burke was never ASKED.

      Delete
    6. Mr Lujan stated that he was told he cannot nor is he NOT allow to be in the room with the victims and asked to leave..That was enough reason for him not to trust them..

      Delete
    7. It has nothing to do with whether or not Lujan trusts them. It has only to do with those who are the subject of the investigation.

      Delete
  13. We are able to express our opinions because Mr. Tim Rohr set up JW as a forum for our growing discontent. He deserves respect for the credibility of his reasearch and his impassioned exposition of NCW that would have led us to a dangerous slippery slope of acquiescence to Apuron's capricious greed and ambition. Mr. Rohr dared to go where everyone else just whispered in the safety of anonymity. This took a man with guts and the faith to roll with the blows that came with it - the possible danger to him and to his family in an island where everybody knew everybody, and where pride in blood relations run deep
    I share his concern regarding the direction his initial advocacy is taking due to the added complexity of financial settlements. If we look at the broader and more important landscape, it ought to be the health, healing and welfare of an Archdiocese that has so much to give and has vast potential to grow but stifled by the history of its former leader. Apuron has raped all of us, not just 10-year old boys and the failed NCW experiment, and we will not take kindly on him shafting us again by having to come up with more fundraising. As to the main point of Mr. Rohr's appeal for the victims participating in the healing process and not simply litigation , I wholeheartedly agree.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I want to make it clear that the victims ONLY have the opportunity they have because a very small group of people went to war for them, and in my case, took a great public risk. We want them to be compensated because that is all that can be done at this point especially if their perpetrators are dead or beyond the reach of the law. But we also want them to not lose sight of WHO is paying the bill.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Justice needs to prevail......PERIOD. If there are ulterior motives other than justice......SMH. I pray that is not the case.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not really ulterior motives. But a warning against mere greed. We did this to clean out the archdiocese beginning with getting rid of Apuron.

      Delete
    2. If i can recalled back in May when the Victims 1st came forward They said they are NOT into this for money or fame..their ONLY purpose was to expose Apuron of his Evil ways and wrong doing...what happened to all that talk about wanting to help clean our church and defrocking Apuron?.has that changed since the $ signs came into place..Maybe that's what they need to be reminded.. Yes i believed they all should be compensated but unless Apuron is defrock they might just be left holding an empty money bag..

      Delete
  16. Archbishop Byrnes, can you not feel our pain? Please help us defrock apuron!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The victims shot themselves in the foot by refusing to testify.

      First, they go crazy in the media over their ordeals and want Apuron defrocked. Everyone but the NCW is on their side. Then they clam up and won't give 3 Vatican investigators who took a 16,000-mile round trip the sworn testimony needed to prosecute the pervert. They're going to lose both their canonical and civil cases because they look like greedy liars.

      Unless criminal intent is proved, Apuron won't be defrocked for bungling archdiocesan finances. That can be written off as incompetence/stupidity which is not a crime. Civil lawsuits by the abuse victims are the only things that might nail him. He could also end up as conveniently dead as Abp. Wesolowski did last year and the victims will get next to nothing.

      Delete
    2. I will not reveal names, but I have heard that two did testify, and only one has absolutely refused.

      Delete
    3. Tim is an Honorable Man and although he will NOT reveal names WE will find out who you are..If you think you are going to have the last laugh with your big fat check,think twice before you head to the bank..

      Delete
  17. I agree with Tim. There is s difference between just compensation and greed. The former is driven out of justice, the latter is driven out of lust for money.

    ReplyDelete
  18. As long as the Plaintiffs aren't lying, I don't care if they sue the archdiocese blind.

    What were you outraged Dudley Do-Rights doing for 30 years while little boys were being raped and left bleeding on the floor?! Kissing Apuron's fat ass and giving him envelopes full of tribute money!! Let truthful victims have their day in Court for any reason they choose!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Fighting the good fight here at home, Tim. We haven't had any pedophile or gay priest scandals here for at least 10 years. We have no NCW issues. Neocats around here know they'd best keep to themselves, and they do.

      Abuse victims were paid almost $70 million years ago, mainly in out of Court settlements. Complaints about that were minimal because all of the hidden perverts were exposed. The old ones were retired and nearly all of them have died. The younger ones were laicized and never seen again. There were big names in both groups.






      Delete
    2. Anon 11;36 was probably an active participant himself in Apuron's SEX FEST with these young boys..Nobody said these Victims cannot / will not have their day in court..all we are asking is their testimonies to Defrock Apuron..We are all fighting for the same cause..To Defrock Apuron...Need I remind the Victims that they had told US Publicly on Social Media they want to expose Apuron and would NOT stopped until he is defrocked..I personally hold them accountable on their word..Is this all about money now?/ has greed set in that the victims have forgotten why we are still protesting ( rain or shine) every Sunday??..Have they forgotten How many people are supporting them? Is this the GRATITUDE we get in return from them?..I hope and pray they will not betray us like Apuron did?..MONEY TALKS AND APURON WALKS....Is this how it is going to end?? ONLY WORD TO SUM THIS UP IS BETRAYAL.

      Delete
    3. Anon 2:23 are you one of the clericalist shitheads, or what? 11:36 is clearly AGAINST Apuron!


      Delete
    4. I know when I'm wrong and I apologized to both Anon 11;36 Pm and 3;25 Pm..My comment already out before I read 1;04 Pm's answer.sorry...

      Delete
  19. Janet B - MangilaoMarch 27, 2017 at 1:26 PM

    Fr Tony Cruz, Fr Ray Cepeda, Fr Louis Brouillard and Bishop Camacho did not ask for a canonical trial. Only one fool asked for a canonical trial, Apurun the idiot serial sexual predator. So there are only three survivors and one victim so far that have accused Apurun publically.

    Hopefully, those three survivors and one victim will remember that when they first came forward there was no possibility for criminal or civil justice in their allegations. They came forward because the justice they sought was to have an evil person removed from his position of authority, and that he would finally confront these accusers, and all his other victims, to atone for the terrible damage he inflicted on their lives.

    I hope those four accusers remember this.

    What if Apurun had not threatened to sue them? What if he never called them liars who wanted to destroy the Church? What if he admitted to these actions, or if he just remained silent and promised to have Rome thoroughly investigate these allegations? THERE WOULD BE NO LAWSUITS TODAY!

    The four accusers only recourse would be to testify in a canonical trial to insure that justice is carried out.

    But now the accusers refuse to testify. And Tim’s point is valid. It is greed that keeps them from testifying. They are concerned that their testimony might reduce whatever money they could get from a civil suit.

    I ask these three survivors and one victim to recall the initial reason why they came forward – for justice. Do not allow the efforts of Tim, Silent No More, and CCOG/LFM in getting the statute of limitation waived blind you to the goal of justice. We are glad that you can now be compensated. But don’t let that change your initial mission.

    By not testifying in the canonical trial you have set back justice to an extent you cannot imagine. Why? For the sake of money alone? Or are you having second thoughts and now believe Apurun is worthy of continuing to serve as Archbishop of Agana?

    Tim is correct. Justice is at a crossroads. Apurun is out of sight. Quitugua and Cristobal are out of sight. Pius is gone. Byrnes is trying to control the NCW. But if key witnesses refuse to testify, how can we be sure Apurun will remain in self imposed exile? Without their testimony, imagine what would happen to all the hard work and progress made thus far if Apurun returns.

    My prayers go out to the four accusers of Apurun – you started off seeking justice. Are you still willing to finish what you started?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As I detailed very clearly in my "Orchestrated" series, I purposely provoked Edivaldo, who I knew had taken over the chancery, into making those accusations against Roy and Doris, by saying that it was I who was behind those ads, and laying the foundation for the only course of legal action available to us at the time: a defamation suit.

      I do not need to blow my own horn. But the fact remains is that I was and still am the only person publicly exposed here. Someone had to do it and I did it. It was also my decision NOT to go forward with any public testimony (I already had Walter's) until we could find them legal protection because I knew what Apuron would do. We found an attorney to protect them and raised the money to pay for him.

      Delete
    2. Tim,You have every right to blow your own horn because without you and other supporters, I wouldn't be where I am now .Standing Taller stronger and wiser than I was almost 12 years ago..And for that I want to thank you and everyone..

      Delete
  20. Threatening these victims with your callous bulling tactic, especially without knowing all the facts, makes you Tim no better than the men who abused them in the first place. Remember there are two sides to every story. Not just YOUR side!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. LOL So who did I threaten. And how do know what I know? You don't.

      Delete
    2. What do you call saying "We will find you and hunt you down!" . That's bullying you idiot! Instead of casting your own judgement, why don't you calm down and see how this plays out. I believe everyone wants the same thing but maybe are going at it in a different way. The church is still trying to minipulate the victims. I don't believe you are a lawyer are you?

      Delete
    3. Did I name anyone? And waiting to see how this will play out? That's what I've been told from the beginning. And if I had done that Apuron would still be here and he'd be suing anyone who dared tell their story, including your relative.

      Delete
    4. An anonymous person : Remember there are two sides to every story. Not just YOUR side!

      Love these lectures from those who attempt to admonish Tim in these instances. You think JungleWatch became a credible (and validated) source of information by publishing conjecture?

      If you want to admonish fiction, go to the blog of the herald of Pius. An added bonus, they are just as courageous with their credibility as they are with their finger wagging.

      Delete
  21. Anon 6:28 AM. please tell us the facts and your side of the story..

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anon 8:44 AM..If you mean Defrocking Apuron then you are right we all want the same thing..If there is another way Please do tell. Are You a Victim to say the church is still trying to MANIPULATE us>,If not,kindly please keep your opinion to yourself..I AM A VICTIM and I did the right thing by testifying. YES,I TESTIFIED...I have a Conscience and cannot live with myself if I didn't do what is right..I admit, i was nervous and scared to be in there by myself but it was a chance I had to take.. And you know what ,it is NOT what everyone say or thought it would be..The Cardinal was not intimidating,..Nobody was. As a matter of fact,it was straightforward questions..there is NOTHING to fear but fear itself.f.. Unless you are a victim who has testified,then you might have a right express yourself otherwise, otherwise keep your offensive and derogatory comments outside the door.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rose de los Reyes (Seattle, WA)March 29, 2017 at 4:38 AM

      Thank you sooooooo much for testifying before the ecclesiastic court. Your testimony is very valuable in so many ways, one of which is to rid the church of predators like the one who sexually abused you. I’m so happy for you that you have the firsthand experience of telling your story to the cardinal in charge of investigating your case. There is a misconception of scariness when giving your testimony before a tribunal. Part of the scariness is the mystery of what really happens since the procedure is confidential. When you are scared, you make up so many things in your head and you scare yourself, only to find out, as you said, there is nothing to fear but fear itself. Perhaps years ago it would be more scary to appear before a tribunal, but at present, the ecclesiastic court has some awareness that they have a reputation (whether deservedly or not) of being scary, so for the most part (at least with the tribunals in the U.S) those who are present at a tribunal proceeding make a concerted effort at making the proceedings not scary. Part of what makes things scary is that the proceedings are comprised primarily of, if not all, clergy. If you’re a Catholic, no matter how hard you try, you can’t get it off your head that clergy, when seen collectively, can be a scary sight for sore eyes. But once the proceedings get underway, you’ll realize they are not so scary. In fact, you will find relief during the proceedings that “someone” with authority in the Church is listening to your plight. Thank you for making yourself available to the cardinal, to answer his questions. You’ll be in my prayers.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous 2:20

      Then why don't you put your name to your claim. You say you testified. Then prove it by posting your name. There is nothing to be afraid of.


      John Cruz from Agat

      Delete
    3. How do you know. Obviously there are some who are fearful of testifying or else they would have.

      Delete
    4. Rose de los Reyes (Seattle, WA)March 30, 2017 at 3:55 AM

      To John Cruz/Anon 1:06 (above), for sexual abuse victims / victims of rape, maintaining their anonymity is a respected and accepted practice in the social service and legal systems. One of the reasons for this acceptance is possible retaliation from those who hurt them. Another reason is that the nature of the harm is sexual. For the most part and as a matter of practice, individuals prefer to keep sexual matters private, including sexual violence. The overarching reason is fear. To maintain this privacy, sexual abuse and rape victims are often referred to in a public forum by their initials (or as “Jane Doe/John Doe”). The two most recently filed sexual abuse lawsuits against the Archdiocese of Agana is filed by Plaintiffs R.M.C. and M.A. (an examples of anonymity). Victims who wish to maintain their anonymity throughout a legal proceeding testify in disguise or behind a screen to maintain their anonymity. To challenge Anon 2:20 to reveal his/her identity to legitimatize his/her comment above is not respecting the traumatic and sensitive nature of his/her experience. Anonymity is a factor that compels many commenters in JungleWatch to express their views. While there are some who hide behind their anonymity to post lies, stupid, irrelevant, crass, and evil comments, for the most part, the intention behind most of the anonymous comments is to share their thoughts and experiences which they likely aren’t able to do given their standing in the island community or due to shyness. Anon 2:20 may or may not be a legitimate sexual abuse victim, but to challenge him/her to out his/her identity (especially in the internet) is not worth finding out at a later time that you may be wrong (or right).

      Delete
  23. Fear is not the only reason.

    Many of these poor victims are so traumatized and disabled that they can't testify. They won't go to psychotherapy because recalling the horrors they endured is too painful.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Lurch sighting in Asan parish this am. It was weird watching the little altar servers giving Lurch and the seminarian directions on how to properly say a Catholic mass.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It doesn't surprise me..Asan Church is run by the NEO's

      Delete
  25. Not for long....

    ReplyDelete

Recommendations by JungleWatch