Saturday, February 8, 2014

THEY DO A DAMIN(ING) GOOD JOB

As I've said on many occasions. The Neo's do a better job of damning their religion than I could ever do, and this little excerpt is another example of how the members of the Neocatechumenal Way are taught and cultured in the ways of disobedience. It truly is a different church.




In response to WHY WE REJECT YOU, Anonymous Neo explains:
Those disagreements have been said about 8 or 9 years ago. The Church will always disagree about something. Even the Early Church disagreed on whether the Gentiles should be circumcised and follow Jewish laws. Reconciliation is what matters. The fact that the members of the Way are now receiving the Body of Christ standing up meets what the Holy See wanted the members to do. Also, there are millions of people walking in the Way. It would take time for the information to trickle down so that all members receive the information so that all can conform to what the Vatican wants them to do in regards to receiving the Body of Christ.
His/her comment is followed by other comments by people who are incredulous at this sort of rationale. He/she then responds:
I never said it takes 9 or 10 years for the information to get down to millions of people. I said you are using a 2005 or 2006 article showing that the members of the Way are committing these errors, when these errors were already corrected since 2009 after the Statues were officially approved. It was at the annual convivences when the correction was made and the Responsibles brought the correction back to their communities. The members of the Way used to receive the host sitting down. That is no longer true today. 
And to which I replied:
Interesting. So you say "these errors were already corrected since 2009 after the Statues (sic) were officially approved."  
This is quite an admission on your part. The directive was given on 12/1/2005 and two years was granted to make the change. Let's do the math: 5 + 2 = 7. So the NCW was to have conformed by 12/1/2007. Yet you tell us that it wasn't until 2009 that you conformed. So then you are admitting to two full years of disobedience. 
Apart from the ridiculous idea that it would take time for the instruction to filter down, there was no intent for the instruction to filter down, as evidence by the letter from Kiko on 1/17/2006 informing Benedict that he had no intention of obeying. 
Plus, your rationale would leave no excuse for Guam since the Archbishop very publicly addressed the instruction during the first week of January 2006. Yet, in April 2008, the NCW communities here in Guam continued to ignore the instruction. And when I asked a neo-priest why, I was told that the neo had their instructions to retain the status quo.  
Lastly, you DO NOT receive communion standing. "Receive", according to the liturgical books (GIRM 161) means to "consume". You DO NOT consume. You hold it in your hands and then sit down, and then consume. This is a violation of your own statute and your leaders know it. Rome did not spell it out for you because they actually counted on your intelligence and good will. Thus they simply ordered that you receive in conformity with the liturgical books with the only exception being that you could remain in your place. 

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Truly, we only need to let these guys talk. But I suppose the rest of us respond just for therapy lest we lapse into drinking ourselves silly to forget this foolishness. The trouble is that the Archbishop believes it, AND practices it. And thus it is no longer just foolishness, but dangerous foolishness, with very dangerous consequences...eternal ones. "The floor of hell....."

GIRM 161. If Communion is given only under the species of bread, the priest raises the host slightly and shows it to each, saying, Corpus Christi (The Body of Christ). The communicant replies, Amen, and receives the Sacrament either on the tongue or, where this is allowed and if the communicant so chooses, in the hand. As soon as the communicant receives the host, he or she consumes it entirely.

40 comments:

  1. Tim, I think I can clear up the NCW version of “obedience” regarding reception of the Eucharist.

    After reading the comments by Anonymous (February 8, 2014 at 1:22 PM, in reference to the 9:28 AM comment), I realized that his math reflected the calculation of the Archbishop back in January 2006. During his KOLG appearance, the Archbishop stated, “The late Pope John Paul gave it for five years ad experimentum so THIS GIVES US EVEN TWO MORE YEARS SO REALLY TO 2009 if you count 5 years from 2002 for the FIRST EXPERIMENTATION, 5 years is 2007 plus this giving us 2 more years, especially in terms of the Eucharist itself and the manner of receiving the Eucharist.”

    When I heard that explanation, I was incredulous! Clearly, the Archbishop — probably at the direction of the NCW leaders — interpreted the directive of 12/01/2005 of the two years to make the change regarding their reception of the Eucharist as an EXTENSION of the original 5-year ad experimentum period granted by Pope John Paul II in 2002.

    Here’s how I think their math goes …

    The 5-year ad experimentum period granted in 2002 was to end in 2007. The “Arinze letter” gave the NCW two years to change the manner in which to receive the Eucharist. Considering that the NCW was in Year 3 of the 5-year ad experimentum, there were 2 years left during which that change could have been made so that everything would have been completed by 2007. BUT instead of incorporating that 2-year period into the existing ad experimentum timeline, the NCW decided to do some creative math and ADD the 2 years at the END of the initial ad experimentum period so that “compliance” — and I use the term very loosely! — would be expected by 2009.

    It may have been another reading comprehension issue — OR a very liberal application of “creative math” — but whatever the case is, the NCW is definitely working within their own mindset, apart from that of the Catholic Church!

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  2. The above picture looks horrible to me. I can't imagine ever receiving our Lord in the most holy Eucharist is like this. Even when I was sick in hospital I would still get out of bed and kneel when the blessed sacrament was given to me. The picture shows a complete lack of respect for the Eucharist.

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    1. What's on that big plate? Looks like little finger tuna sandwiches. Really!

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    2. Communion meal is made of homemade unleavened loaf of bread and then broken into pieces

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    3. Anonymous (February 8, 2014 at 3:59 PM): The items on the big plate are what the NCW members receive during their service — bread baked according to Kiko's recipe. This is the kind of bread that, according to the Archbishop, should be used in all Masses so as to restore the "broadness of The Bread" because Jesus used REAL bread, not the "white wafers," during the Last Supper.

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    4. Ask away and I will answer the best that I can but don't all,ask at once. Will get to you accordingly in due time

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    5. At the Synod, our Archbishop used the phrase, "breadiness of the bread", not "broadness of the bread". One critic quipped, "what about the bishopness of the bishop?"

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    6. This is a really good one. I remember waiting to see what Archbishop Apuron's intervention would be. I was so ashamed he used his few minutes for to be a stooge for the Neo. He wasn't the only one though....Lots of them had some off the wall ideas. 'what about the bishopness of the bishop?" I'm still SORT OF laughing at this one.

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    7. My bad — I didn't catch the autocorrect: Archbishop did say BREADNESS of the Bread. Not "broadness". Sorry.

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  3. Yes, it is baked according to a specific recipe

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    1. How do u receive communion?

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    2. Standing and consuming as a community

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    3. The community a friend is a part of in Agana, says that they sit to consume. Apparently it differs by community. In any event, the General Instruction to the Roman Missal par 161 does not allow you to "consume as a community". It instructs the communicant to consume the host "immediately". There is no allowance in your statute to do otherwise. If there is an external document permitting you to do so please reference it and this conversation will be over.

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    4. Here's a Neo recipe that seems legit (flour and water):
      http://www.camino-neocatecumenal.org/NEO/CARISMAS/hostiarios/pan%20eucaristico.htm

      search for "neocatecumenal Pan eucarístico"

      BTW, here's another Neo store: http://www.tiendadelcamino.com/

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    5. Another Neo store for Kiko-gear:
      http://www.orfebreriamogaly.com/

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  4. The recipe of the Church is flour and water. What's Kiko's secret sauce.

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  5. You should see the chalice that they use for their celebrations, it looks more of a punch bowl than a chalice. Also, they used a specific eucharist wine which is available only at Barrigada Parish. All the communities have to purchase their wine from them.They are the only parish that sells the Neo Wine.

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    1. Is this the wine they use?
      http://www.neomerkaba.com/Wordpress/?p=818&lang=it

      They seem to have three varieties: sweet red, golden, and white.

      Now why would they require to use THIS particular brand, POMILIA-CALAMIA from Sicily?

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    2. Yes, if you investigate the site further, it is Kiko's site where he sells all his neo paraphernalia.

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    3. it's not required. at tamuning communities, we usually use Morgen David from Payless or case lot store from the base.

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    4. Oh really? So we have a neo community using wine that is bought on base. Hmmmm. Commissary privileges would be revoked if and when the buyer is identified. Thanks for the intel.

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    5. BTW, wine bought on base for use in a neo liturgy would be considered contraband wine.

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    6. What is wrong with the communion wine that frairy sells?The friary has been selling the communion wine for many years and I assumed all the parishes purchase the wine from them. What makes the neo communion wine different from the wine the friary sells?

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    7. Be careful with the Mogen David. Mogen David company makes fortified wine. If the Neos use fortified wine (sugar added), it could be invalid wine.

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    8. To anon 7:48pm...NEOS give their full support to anything relating to The NCW. the Capuchins are not of the Way, so there cannot be any support to them . The Carmelite sisters no longer make the hosts for the church because not enough orders. The NEO Pastors order their host from SPAIN.

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    9. wine from the base-not so sure it would be an issue to purchase wine and use it that way. alcohol, soft drinks routinely purchased for
      parties, gatherings, it's not resold.

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    10. Does the NCW use any songs or music in their community liturgies that are NOT written by Kiko? If not, why not? If so, what songs?

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    11. how about Amazing Grace! who saved a wretch like me....I once was lost, but now I'm found, was blind but now I see....NEVER MIND just cant put these words to Israeli music. Too bad; the words are perfect. We'll just stick with the Kiko label.

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    12. I can tell you that no songs other than ones written by Kiko can be used in the communities. I tried once to use a song not by Kiko, but was reprimanded by my cathechist. It was one of many events that made me leave for good.

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    13. Arius had a charismatic personality and spread his error (Arianism) with his own songs. Most of the bishops at the time fell for it.

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    14. Arius may have spread his error with his own songs, but he had a charismatic personality...look at the demo clip....is KIKO CHARISMATIC? With his smoking and red face he is a stroke waiting to happen. Carmen must be the charismatic one : ))

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  6. This is how the Neocatechumenal Way celebrates its Mass. It is the same as described in Chapter IV section II in GIRM (the Concelebrated Mass).

    GIRM 242 When this prayer before Communion is finished, the principal celebrant genuflects and steps back a little. Then one after another the concelebrants come to the middle of the altar, genuflect, and reverently take the Body of Christ from the altar. Then holding it in their right hand, with the left hand placed below, they return to their places. The concelebrants may, however, remain in their places and take the Body of Christ from the paten presented to them by the principal celebrant or by one or more of the concelebrants, or by passing the paten one to another.

    GIRM 243 Then the principal celebrant takes a host consecrated in the same Mass, holds it slightly raised above the paten or the chalice, and, facing the people, says the Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God). With the concelebrants and the people he continues, saying the Domine, non sum dignus (Lord, I am not worthy).

    GIRM 244 Then the principal celebrant, facing the altar, says quietly, Corpus Christi custodiat me ad vitam aeternam (May the body of Christ bring me to everlasting life), and reverently receives the Body of Christ. The concelebrants do likewise, communicating themselves. After them the deacon receives the Body and Blood of the Lord from the principal celebrant.

    http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20030317_ordinamento-messale_en.html#I._MASS_WITH_A_CONGREGATION

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    1. As already mentioned, this section refers to the actions of the "concelebrants" when there are concelebrants. You are not a concelebrant. However, if you believe this passage refers to the neo liturgy then I think we see the problem.

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    2. It's very clear this refers to the actions of "concelebrants" as you said, Tim. Neo's are grasping at anything to justify their disobedience. I'm waiting to hear their response to this.

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    3. Such arrogance to think that they're "concelebrants" with principal celebrant, the priest. No wonder they're opposed to this practice as it puts them at the same level as the priest. This is so very wrong!!!

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  7. I find it quite ironic that at the "Neo" church of Barrigada during regular Mass they tell the parishioners that they must consume the body of Christ once they receive it, but then turn around in the Neo Eucharist and do the exact opposite. Why the special treatment for the Neocats?

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  8. One of the purpose of the Neocatechumenal Way is to celebrate in small communities as the Early Christians did. The word "concelebrate" in Early Christianity does not have the same meaning as today. In those days, all Christians concelebrated according to their role or liturgical order of the Church. See the weblink below:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=vJ78Vd4O9d4C&pg=PA261&lpg=PA261&dq=Concelebration+in+the+Early+Church&source=bl&ots=n1HLNy-C7B&sig=ZRcMFC0kjZraPPIwwqJgX1tVgy4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ntv2UqKRDcjQyAGhgIGwAQ&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Concelebration%20in%20the%20Early%20Church&f=false


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  9. Also, how can the Way be in two years of disobedience when disputes are still ongoing as to whether the members of the Way should sit or stand? I would think that the approval of the Way's Statues in 2008 settled those disputes. Both sides had to come to an agreement - thus the introduction in the Statutes, which was signed by Kiko, Carmen, and Father Mario.

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    1. Umm, yes. The Statute did "settle" the dispute. And the agreement was about as good as an Israeli-Palestinian peace accord. You still do not receive as required by your own statute. You stand, but you do not consume as required by GIRM 161. And many communities do not consume while standing but sit and then consume. You persevere in disobedience. But maybe not, given that you belong to a different church.

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  10. Very true Tim. Each evening I sit down to,read junglewatch as the page now provides readers all over the world with informed detailed information about archbishop Apuron and San ramon office. We no longer read the archdiocesan web page as we receive greater detailed information from you and your readers . Congratulations on your informed web page.

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