Friday, March 28, 2014

SQUEALING, SCRATCHING AND CLAWING. BUT NO ANSWER.

Anonymous March 27, 2014 at 2:02 AM appeared to know what he/she was talking about.  Even the spelling and grammar was good.

He/she had provided 18 answers to 18 questions by a certain commenter named Oleg. The answers were all correct, straightforward, and where necessary, documented.

Not encountering such thoughtfulness very often from the Neocat side, I took the opportunity to ask Anonymous at 2:02 AM about the Neo practice of not immediately consuming the host upon receiving, as well as some other matters:
Well said. You appear to be more informed than the rest. I have often noted those practices which are permitted by the Statute, which you note here as well. Perhaps you can tell us where the permission comes for those practices which are not permitted by the Statute.  
As you know, other than what is permitted in the Statute, all other norms as per the "liturgical books" apply. Thus GIRM 161 requiring immediate consumption of the consecrated host applies. The priest is also required to communicate himself before distributing communion. Neither of these norms are followed.  
As you probably also know, in defense of these practices we have heard just about every possible twist, from redefining the communicants to "concelebrants" to taking the "as soon as" in GIRM 161 to mean "as soon as" ALL have received. I do hope that you will be able to do better than that.  
One final request, the Statute requires your Eucharist to be "open to the other faithful". However, the "other faithful" do not know the locations and times of these celebrations. Would you be willing to at least post the location and time of your community's weekly celebration of the Eucharist and any more that you know of? Thank you.
I waited 24 hours. There has been no reply. So I asked again:
At 2:02AM. Waiting. You appeared to have all the answers for Oleg. No answers for me?
I have now asked these questions countless times. Aside from the many times I have asked it on this blog, I have specifically addressed these questions to Archbishop Apuron, and Fr. Neil X. O'Donoghue, a noted defender of the Neocatechumenal Way, and listed as a member of the faculty of the Blessed Diego Institute (even though he lives in Ireland). Their answers? The same as from 2:02AM: SILENCE.

I hear that the Archbishop and others are quite angry about this blog. They could shut me up with a single answer. The could simply show me (and others) where they have the permission to do what they do. I would have no argument. JungleWatch would go away.

Yet we get evasions, silence, grotesque twists, mad interpretations, squealing and scratching and clawing. Everything but an answer. Because there is none.

21 comments:

  1. I am going to assume that all the communities start their Saturday celebrations at the same time Which is I believe at 7:30. Cathedral has theirs in the Blessed Sacrament Chapel and there is also one in the cry room.

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    1. You also need to understand that the songs they sing varies from community to community. This depends on the level/step that you are in.

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  2. I note the astute comment on a previous blog post about the NCW using their own Paschal Candle during their Easter celebrations. I think more needs to be made of this, as again this is an outright liturgical abuse, if it is true.

    A friend who was in the Way for 20 years tells me that each community would use its own Paschal Candle during the mid-week "celebration of the Word". So it seems that there may be even more than two candles blessed and used in parishes with the NCW.

    I don't suppose there will be an answer proffered for this question either?

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    1. You would be correct. More evasion, silence, squealing, and scratching. I'm also very curious as to their authorization to baptize in school gyms.

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    2. Janet B - MangilaoMarch 29, 2014 at 10:28 AM

      The Lord Jesus said to go and baptize in every corner of the world. So I guess to the Neo Kikos this means also gymnasiums (tongue in cheek). Too bad the sacred space like the Boys' Chapel, which WAS recently consecrated as an Oratory, (and Canon Law specifically states it is a proper place for baptisms - see: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2V.HTM Canon 857.1) cannot be used for baptisms of regular Catholics, but I suspect the Neo Kikos will be granted special favors to baptize on Easter Vigils at their parallel church.
      Thanks Tony for making it so obvious who you love and who you despise.

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  3. A useful reading from Diana's blog:

    Msgr. Juan Arrieta, Secretary of the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts, summarizes the liturgical concessions of the Neocatechumenal Way as follows:

    “A new way for the distribution of Communion: 'Regarding the distribution of Holy Communion under the two species, the neocatechumens receive standing, remaining at their place.' The faithful receive the precious body while standing, take seat and wait until all have received. Then the celebrant says 'Body of Christ, bring us everlasting life!' and the whole congregation consumes immediately after the priest consumes the host."

    Antonio Cardinal Cañizares, current Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship, expressed his view on the Eucharistic celebration of the Neocatechumenal Way:

    "There are no liturgical anomalies [in the Eucharist]; everything is in full compliance of the guidelines of the ‘Ordo Missae.’"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocatechumenal_Way

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    1. 1. The source document for the first quote is Definitive Approval of the Statutes of the Neocatechumenal Way, Canonical Notations of Mons. Juan Ignacio Arrieta found here:

      http://www.camminoneocatecumenale.it/new/default.asp?lang=en&page=statuto08_4

      Here is what the Mons. Juan actually says:

      " With regards, finally, to Communion, the mentioned art. 13 § 3 results in a particular neatness: "Regarding the distribution of Holy Communion under the two species, the neocatechumens receive it standing, remaining at their place."

      Here is what the Mons. Juan DOES NOT SAY:

      "The faithful receive the precious body while standing, take seat and wait until all have received. Then the celebrant says 'Body of Christ, bring us everlasting life!' and the whole congregation consumes immediately after the priest consumes the host."

      What he actually says is directly quoted from the Statute, Art. 13 §3, which we have quoted here numerous times. Typical of the Neocats, they attached what he DID NOT say, put it in quotes, and made it look like it is what Mons. Juan said.

      2. The second quote by Canizares - is taken from Wikipedia. If you click on the footnote number next to the quote it says "citation needed."

      "Diana" is going to have to do better than that.

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    2. Both quotes are from the Wikipedia. Just read it again.

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    3. Yes. I found both quotes in the Wiki article. The first one linked to the source - always better to go the source, don't you think? The source was different than Wikipedia. No surprise there.

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    4. I'm curious. Why would "Diana" want to rely on Wikipedia when she/he could have relied on the official neocat website like I did. Ooops. Maybe it didn't say what she/he wanted it to say.

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  4. After reading the comment by Anonymous (March 28, 2014 at 4:07 PM), I feel compelled to point out that if "Diana" will make it a point to rely on Wikipedia as his/her main source for information — and if the NeoCats are going to accept everything he/she posts as accurate and true — they all might want to take a look at the Main Page of Wikipedia which states:

    "Welcome to Wikipedia,
    the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit."

    Please take note of the words "ANYONE CAN EDIT," which is why Tim prefers GOING TO THE SOURCE rather than rely on a "free encyclopedia that ANYONE CAN EDIT" as does "Diana."

    "Diana" and other NeoCats might want to GO TO THE SOURCE that NOBODY can edit. But then again, maybe they can't stand the truth and will continue to rely on Wikipedia.

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  5. I am working on their songs now. It is amazing stuff. Every single word is coming from their Leader in Rome. He composed everything himself! The guy thinks of himself in terms of a Flamenco guitar man. All his songs sound alike. You know one, you know them all!
    In these songs for example they call Mary all different kinds of animal names: "Mary uncorrupt dove", "Mary House of Benediction", "Mary, child of Jerusalem".
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7sNQwmVzWI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OjldwULNqo
    Read this, another piece of strange language:
    You are the cloud
    which protects Israel
    the tent where we meet
    the Ark of the Covenant
    the place where the Lord dwells,
    the Sanctuary of his Shekinah.
    This is how they call Mary in the song "Mary, Little Mary". Strange? Well, it is strange like hell! But they don't care! Another says "Mary of the burning way" whatever it means.
    They have a "clean" WEB-site for their songs that does not have these curious teachings about Mary. Perhaps it is only to show case to the public that their songs are okay?
    http://irishsongs.tripod.com/cantos_ir.htm
    Well, these songs are definitely not okay! My favorite one from their repertoire is this: "Mary, She-lamb of God, humble lamb you who don’t resist evil." Yes, I also said what!? How on Earth do they call her? Well, that is exactly what they sing in their song. In another: "Mary, she-lamb without blemish, Mary, the innocent she-lamb".
    Everything can be found here:
    http://dezylva.com/Folder/Song%20Book/Song%20Book%202003.pdf
    Reading all this gibberish in their song book, I can only say please stick to the teaching that is true and real:
    Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, have mercy on us!

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    1. Try Mary, the ark of the covenant, the burning bush of Moses. Just why do they compare Mary to various symbols of the Old Testament. They at one point compared the Blessed Trinity to the Holy Family. Don't know whether they are coming or going,

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    2. Thanks Oleg for your research. I think "Mary, she-lamb without blemish..." is the scariest. As much as I respect Our Mother, she was not the paschal sacrifice made in expiation for our sins. That role was reserved exclusively for the Son of Man.

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    3. It is getting alarmingly clear that this Neo practice is not from God but from Modernist Man-tamperings ...we were warned there would be enemies of The Catholic Church bent on destroying Catholocism.

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    4. Maybe the members of the NCW are confusing Mary, the she-lamb with the nursery school song "Mary had a little lamb." :)

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  6. Interested to learn from this website if anyone has experienced A neo wake and funeral. Reason why I ask is in new jersey neo groups are holding private wakes. Is this allowed by the church to wake in ones own home, then mass in the home, and direct to burial.

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    1. A wake is okay and it's how people did it in the past. But a Mass, any Mass outside the church must be for serious reason. But since we have learned that the neos don't need a reason for anything other than what the community decides is best for them, and since the Archbishop is fine with that, then so be it. Meanwhile, the rest of us will stay Catholic.

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  7. Questions for the NVW:

    You are saying that the NCW Easter Vigil is just a vigil and not a celebration of the Eucharist? So what parish do these people get registered in who are baptized, confirmed and receive communion? The hotel is not a parish, the chancery is not a parish, the gym is not a parish. Why a separate baptism, confirmation, or communion when the local parishes have them on Easter Vigil too. Isn't this called segregation. I am a neocat, therefore I must receive the sacraments under the jurisdictions of the neocat way?

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    1. Not exactly sure what you are referring to with your first question. The Easter Vigil includes the celebration of the Eucharist. But as for your other questions, yes, we have those too.

      As per the Archbishop's restrictions on the use of the newly constructed Boys' Chapel, it is obvious that the celebration of the sacraments can only occur in approved places. Yet we know that the neo communities pretty much celebrate them anywhere and probably without permission. But then again, we have been told that the Archbishop has no say as to what the communities choose to do.

      And as to what parish these sacraments are registered in, yes, that is a large question. I know of at least one neocat baptism that occurred in a high school gym and the parents didn't have a clue where to go for the baptismal certificate.

      In his now famous defense of the the neocats on KOLG, the Archbishop, back in 2006, explained why the neocats must hold their vigil separate from the rest of the church. Perhaps it is time to release the rest of that episode.

      It's actually a good explanation, but it creates segregation as you say. I'll post it soon.

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    2. It seems that the local parishes do not have the appropriate "salvation" when it comes to the NCW. What explanation can there be. When one begins to segregate practices this begins the disunification of the church.

      So much problema, so much confusion, so much of everything!

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