Thursday, May 22, 2014


Chuck White's post on Kiko's view of Purgatory - or lack of it - got some folks all in a twist, including the poor fellow from Yona who uses this blog to exorcise his Catholic demons. He's one of those who picked up a bible and now has all the answers for the rest of us. 

As expected, he called Purgatory "a self-created place of torture where the Catholic Church locked itself to suffer till the end of time" and "a pure invention without any basis in the Bible." I would call him "ignorant", but I'll hold off since, unfortunately, he's not that far off from what many Catholics today would say about Purgatory - due to 40 plus years of any mention of it being almost wholly absent from our pulpits and our current penchant for warm-fuzzy catechesis. 

For anyone who cares to know, Purgatory is clearly explained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. See Par. 1031, 1472, 1475, 1498. The Catechism has all the usual scriptural references: 1 Cor 3:15, 1 Pet 1:7, 2 Macc 12:46, and Mt. 12:31, as well as several references to the Fathers, but, as evidenced by over 500 years of rejection by Protestants - and now many Catholics -  these verses and references do not suffice. Here's why:

1 Cor 3:15 and 1 Pet 1:7 both speak of a refining fire but do so in a metaphoric context. So they get thrown out as "just a metaphor" or a parable. 2 Macc 12:46 speaks of prayers for the dead, but Luther threw that book out of the bible centuries ago so it's not even in "their bibles".  And Mt. 12: 31, where Jesus speaks of "forgiveness in an age to come" is often simply discarded as an expression of emphasis and not an actual opportunity to be forgiven in an "age to come". 

We can argue about these interpretations but then we've been arguing for more than 500 years, and it appears, by the increasing disappearance of Purgatory from our pulpits (despite the endless animas, oddly) - that the other side is winning. 

So where in the Bible do we find an explicit mention of Purgatory? First, before I answer that, let's be clear, we don't have to find anything in the Bible explicitly! If Jesus wanted us to follow a book he would have left us one. He didn't. He left us a Church and a teaching authority for that Church. He gave us a Church. The Church gave us the Bible. So we look to the Church first and then the Bible because that is the ORDER that Christ intended...otherwise he would have said "read this", not "do this." 

A little history, though. The contents of the Septuagint, or what we call the Old Testament, was pretty much in place by 250 B.C. But, for nearly 400 years after Christ, there was no Table of Contents for the New Testament, and in fact there was no New Testament. There were simply writings and letters of varying authority floating about the ancient Church. 

A canon, or list, was solemnly defined and public revelation considered closed near the end of the fourth century, but Christianity was pretty well established by then, and well, all without a bible. How did that happen? 

In fact, since only a fraction of the world knew how to read, a bible wouldn't have done much good anyway. And since for the better part of Christianity bibles had to be handwritten, most Christians couldn't get one even if they could read. 

But let's get back to our question: Where is Purgatory explicitly mentioned in the Bible? Answer: Revelation 20:13-14:
The sea gave up its dead; then Death and Hades gave up their dead. All the dead were judged according to their deeds.Then Death and Hades were thrown into the pool of fire. (This pool of fire is the second death.)
So here we are at the end of time and there are dead people in this place called Death and Hades. Where is that, or What is that? It's not Heaven, and it's not Hell. Why is it not Hell? Because Hell, Gehenna, the everlasting place of torment, is the "pool of fire" and Revelation tells us that after Death and Hades give up their dead, Death and Hades will be thrown into the pool of fire. You can't throw Hell into Hell, so it's not Hell. So what is it? And why, at the end of time, are there "dead" in it?

Well, let's do that math. It can't be (a) Heaven and it can't be (b) Hell, so that's two places. Aha! So it must be (c) a THIRD PLACE! If you guessed (c) then you win the prize: a get out of Purgatory free card (that's called something else so we'll get back to that another time.)

The existence of a place that is not Heaven and is not Hell is not new. Before Christ opened the Gates of Heaven, the souls of the just went to a "place" sometimes known as the Bosom of Abraham. And in fact we see Jesus going there "after" his death: 
"In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison..." (1 Pet 3:19). 
Hades is a Greek word that most of think means Hell, but it actually means the abode of the dead. It is a holding place, and as Peter notes, the spirits of the dead who did not deserve Hell were "imprisoned" there. 

But after Jesus released those spirits from prison and opened the Gates of Heaven there should have been no more need for anyone to go there. Yet, at the end of time, we see the spirits of some who have died (the "dead"), languishing in a place called Death and Hades. Why?

See Catechism. 


  1. So mans word over the word of God?

    1. What did Jesus leave us?

    2. So the commandments are not really what we should follow? Do we only follow it because the church says so?

    3. What did Jesus leave us?

    4. He left us Peter of course, but also the words from God.

    5. And where did Jesus leave those "words from God"?

    6. It appears our conversation has stalled?

  2. Yes, this is the crux of the matter that distinguish us from protestants. Not only that they do not believe in the purgatory. Even more the fact that we accept things by authorities other than the Scriptures. But protestants are unable to do that, they can accept only what is written word by word in the Scriptures (Sola Scriptura). They forget that the Bible was written by human beings, that is why the Lord Jesus did not write a gospel Himself but left it to the disciples. He had more important things to do: He had to save us!
    So the Bible is ABOUT Jesus but not FROM Jesus. In that sense it is secondary literature. The primary literature is the Word itself, that is Jesus Christ, as we know it from the whole of the church, including traditions, church authorities and the Bible.
    Neo priests preach from the Bible all the time and members read it on night sessions. They are very proud of that. Well, preaching from the Bible is something a protestant preacher can do any time. Protestants have their Bible studies where they read and fantasize about the meaning of the gospels. They don't understand that it is secondary literature. That is why they abandon true catechesis.
    If you don't believe the transubstantiation, the real presence and yes the purgatory, then you are actually not saved. It may the bad news to kikos and protestants, but this is the truth! We have to share the truth, cannot be silent about it. So sorry kikos, sorry protestants, you are going down...

    1. Dear Friend, I appreciate your enthusiasm for the faith. There are a few matter though that are headed in the right direction but not quite correct. If you will allow me, I will point those out.

    2. The Catholic Church rests its doctrine on the teaching Magisterium, Sacred Tradition, and Scripture. Scripture, of course came last. Christ first taught the apostles (Magisterium). The apostles handed on the faith to others (Tradition). Then later, some of these teachings were written down (Scripture).

      It's not that "protestants are unable" to accept these other sources of authority. Some in fact do. It is only those, as you point out, who subscribe to Sola Scriptura who reject these other sources, even though Scripture itself came from those sources. However, we should not judge them. That may be all they are taught. Thus it is our duty to do our best to share our faith when the opportunity arises.

      Yes, the Bible was written by men, however, we hold that they were guided by the Holy Spirit and what they wrote was what God wanted them to write. But a correct ion here too. The word "bible" refers not to a book but a collection of books. It comes from the word biblio as in bibliography. The key question for anyone who holds to Sola Scriptura is not whether the scriptures are inspired, but who decided which books were inspired and which weren't? Who assembled the Table of Contents, the canon? This list became the New Testament. The bible itself says nothing about who composed the canon of Scripture. As Catholics we know exactly who chose those books.

      And it's true, Jesus himself wrote nothing nor did he tell anyone to write anything.

      Yes, the Neo's are pretty heavy on the bible. That's a good thing, but the bible is not to be separated from the Church which compiled it, lest we interpret the Scriptures to our own destruction. (2 Pet 3;16)

      As for protestants and "fantasize", I know what you are trying to say, and sadly some Catholics sound like they are fantasizing too. But this is why Scripture must be read within the context of the Church which gave it to us.

      One can not believe in certain doctrines and still be saved because ultimately salvation is up to God. Only he knows the heart. And many may not know these things because they haven't been taught, or taught correctly. And that would be our fault, since we are the ones who have this knowledge. However, if one knows the truth and rejects it, that's another matter. But again, only God knows the heart.

      Lastly, I would refrain from saying that anyone is going down. I believe certain belief systems will go down because they are not true and maybe this is what you meant. Meanwhile, we must do what we can to continue to share the truth and beauty of the Catholic faith, a faith by its very name means "for all."

  3. To Anonymous May 22, 2014 at 7:14 AM,
    Bwuahahahaha..... get over yourself and free your mind man.
    Are you here to dialogue or just poke at the jungle watchers?

    1. That's okay. He or she is asking some important questions.

    2. Yes, it's okay because these are the questions that lead to the answers! Ask Scott Hahn, Steve Ray, Dave Armstrong, Rosalind Moss and many other protestants that started out questioning Catholicism. Their questioning and scepticism lead them to the Truth and eventually their conversion to the Catholic faith. And where did they get the answers to these questions? First, scripture, and then the authority of the Church, bestowed by Jesus as indicated throughout scripture. God is good!

    3. Janet B - MangilaoMay 22, 2014 at 4:24 PM

      Very good point Jose. Conversion starts with the heart which leads people to want to know more. When they start looking at the Catholic truths, they realize there is real substance to our ways.
      What is so insidious about the neo kiko way is that they don't have a book, at least not one they widely share, and everything is fed orally and in very measured doses. And they also do a good job of spinning reality to match Kiko's vision of what he wishes reality was.
      Good Catholics in the NCW think they are learning inside secrets of the Catholic Church and do not realize that they are actually being taught heretical garbage. And what makes it even worse is that our local Catholic Church hierarchy is right there when this crap is being taught and no one corrects the erroneous info spewed by the catechists (some even have PHDs!).
      Now that junglewatch has shed light on the error of Kiko's catechism, all NCW members are now responsible to follow true Catholic teaching, to reject kiko heresy, and to speak out against the false words of their catechists.
      Dear Archbishop, I pray that you start to renounce the false teachings of Kiko, and demand that catechists adhere to Catholic doctrine. If you knowing allow this to continue then you are complicit in the spreading of heresy, and the possible damnation of those whose heretical belief endangers their eternal life. Get them to correct their teaching or kick them out of Guam!
      NCW Guam (and many other places looking at Guam) you have been forewarned. Fix the problem that dwells within your movement and save yourself and other good Catholics from heading down the wrong path.
      There you have it. Day two of my new respect for our Archbishop, but the truth has to be said. I never guaranteed I would be his yes girl, just honest and respectful. Examine your actions your excellency!

  4. I’m reminded of how Padre Pio responded when asked what he thought about modern people who didn’t believe in hell. Padre Pio replied: “They’ll believe in hell when they get there.”

    … also what a priest once said on All Souls’ Day: “I not only believe in Purgatory, I’m counting on it!”

    Wouldn’t you rather be prepared than be surprised about the existence of purgatory and hell on Judgment day? For me, it is just like God (isn't it?) to give us Purgatory in His never-ending love for us and in His awesome Divine Mercy for our mistakes!

    Thank you for the information about what kiko’s kerygma is on purgatory, Chuck; and Tim, your dissection of the Protestant’s view of it.

    I’m not a gambler, but since the “fullness of kiko’s teachings” is kept secret from the neo members I’ll wager (for fun): that more than half of the Catholics who have “flown” over to the neo ways aren’t cognizant of many facts about kiko’s positions and denials (and therefore the NCW’s stance). Do they know that by their mere membership in the “neo way,” they show support and in many senses also show acceptance of kiko’s denial of the Catholic Teaching on purgatory!

    THAT IS HERESY, neo members! Now that you know this, what will you do about it because you can’t continue claiming ignorance and innocence. What an awesome step it would be toward healing all the hurt and wounds in our Catholic Church on Guam IF our Archbishop would only humbly bring himself to make the first move out and lead the rest of our Catholic brothers and sisters in the neo back to the Authentic Faith Teachings of Jesus' Way!

    1. Maria you are jumping the gun, pulling the trigger without even establishing your aim.
      You continue to rant that the NCW is disregarding the existence of purgatory. Which is not the case at all. What you need to understand is that Purgatory is not a place or an amount of time as we would regularly refer to according to our human definition.
      St. Thomas Aquinas says,
      "Incorporeal things are not in place after a manner known and familiar to us, in which way we say that bodies are properly in place; but they are in place after a manner befitting spiritual substances, a manner that cannot be fully manifest to us."

      Purgatory can be in an instance but it could also be indefinite. This is the mystery. Kiko does not even say that purgatory does not exist but he goes on to speak as if we will hopefully have the faith at the moment of death to trust in the promise of seeing Jesus face to face. It can be at this moment, this meeting with Jesus that our soul can be purged. This is the possibility, and this can be the possibility for all of us.

      There is no heresy on the subject of Purgatory in the NCW. As Tim has mentioned why then with all the "animas"? Why do people in the NCW pray for the souls of loved ones. We wouldnt be doing it if we did not believe in it. What you need to do is first ground yourself in the faith before you begin picking up stones to throw.
      The Kerygma does not belong to Kiko. The Kerygma is the Good News, the Word of God that sums up all the Gospels with the most eloquent of words, God Loves you!

      You have mixed up the words of our Protestant Brother from Yona with the Words of Kiko. This Blog entry is a response to the Protestant comment on purgatory. No where in the writing of Kiko does it mention that Purgatory does not exist.

      St. John Paul II as well as others in the faith, made it clear that Heaven, Hell and Purgatory are not "places" but are instead "states of being".

      So quit talking about purgatory as if it were a concentration camp or a quarantine area.

      Please, please do not insist that we(members of the NCW) are incognizant of the facts of the NCW positions and denials, if you are unaware of the truths and facts also. My first advice to you will be to go to the next catechesis and ask all the questions you may have concerning the NCW, after you have down this then come back into junglewatch and share. By the way the Great Mission continues this Sunday so see you at one of the parks. This is probably the best time for you to stay back and ask away. The catechists would be more than willing to answer and clarify your misconceptions. Joy!

      Also, unlike you, Im a gambler and would like to place a wager that you will not agree to go to the Great Mission. All bets down, All bets down...

    2. You have only to provide the relevant entry in your catechetical directory (since you do not use the Catechism of the Catholic Church) which supports your position that we are wrong, and we will all stand corrected. Until then it is just your sayso. So until then we can say anything we want, and we will. Show us where we are wrong. Simple.

    3. Our conclusions are drawn from a plain reading of his catechesis from Day 14 of the NCW Initial Phase.

      Show us where Kiko speaks of Purgatory or purification after death, at all. Include examples of any of his catechesis on praying for the souls being purified. Until you do, then our contention that he excludes it in his account of the "last things" is perfectly reasonable.

    4. Janet B - MangilaoMay 23, 2014 at 9:39 AM

      To Anon 5/22 @ 6:56PM - you sure sound like a priest. Too bad all your pastoral training is wasted in your anonymity. At first I really thought this was my beloved Archbishop, finally addressing the issue, even if anonymously. But that last sentence gives you away Fr Adrian..."Also, unlike you, Im a gambler and would like to place a wager that you will not agree to go to the Great Mission. All bets down, All bets down..."
      Too bad your true sarcasm always reveals itself, even through the veil of anonymity.
      Regardless, as we have recently seen by your other pseudonym Diana, nothing is as the NCW claims. Little twists, little misquotes, and you start to get people hooked. But then along comes the voice of truth from people like Tim and Chuck, and many others, and your dastardly deeds are revealed.
      The only thing I cannot figure out is why you go along with this charade. As a priest you have received an excellent opportunity for a fine education. Didn't that teach you to think critically and independently? Didn't your formation teach you to always seek the truth and expose lies and heresies? We all know you struggled mightily at the seminary, but surely joining this neo-cult is not the way to look smart.
      Why would any, solidly orthodox priest even consider joining this group when their errors, their methods, their lack of regard for the sacred, are so obvious?
      This is a great mystery. I pray you, Fr Adrian, and the Archbishop can find your way back to the true faith you promised to defend so long ago.
      God help you!
      With respect, love and prayers.

    5. Sorry Janet, Tim and Chuck but I am not Father Adrian, please continue to pray for him and all priests because they do need our prayers.
      I have told you time and time again that I am not Father Adrian but Im not sure what leads you to believe that I am he. I sometimes wonder if you have generalized the average catholic which I consider myself to be.
      The Directory of the NCW contains many catechesis, or teachings. Because Kiko does not mention Purgatory you have gone on to say that he does not believe in it. The Directory of the NCW does not replace the CCC. The approved version of the Directory contains all the citations and references to the CCC. Unfortunately the Directory also contains the different details associated with the phases of the NCW Itinerary, these "steps" are the same as those experienced in a complete RCIA program. You can find the general description of these steps in the Statutes. The details to include the teachings are withheld to allow the members a full and sincere experience. It is not to be considered "secret" but only to encourage members to wait in anticipation. The NCW Itinerary is almost like a lifelong retreat.

      You constantly request for citations and or references directly from the NCW Directory but there is no need to do this. We rely on the same catechesis as every other Catholic and we also cite scripture and the many spiritual writings of the Saints just as you do. This is where the separation exists because you request from us as if the NCW is different. Your implication is false. So rather than relying on a copy of the NCW Directory, you should just go see a "neo priest" or show up at the next catechesis. There you can Ask Away! Joy!

    6. "Only to encourage members to wait in anticipation"... That's just like stringing a carrot in front of a rabbit. Mind control. Yeah yeah, we'll explain it later, but right now you need to sign over your assets because they are evil, and they make you a sinner. Never mind your mother, it's the devil making her sick to stop you from leaving her for missionary work elsewhere. Your sons graduation? Oh no, you need to be at the next retreat. Anyways, he chose not to walk in the Way.

      I could go on and on, but I might overheat my iPad.

  5. Most people have the common sense to remain loyal to catholic faith and practice even if the archbishop is left challenged at this time. Of greater concern and worry are the assets of the archdiocese. We need to protect the assets or they could be lost from us to the NCW. This is the concern of many of us. The archbishop has only a few years left after which we can do more to protect our church. But we must protect the archdiocesan assets to ensure the financial stability of the archdiocese. We are already in several million debt and it is very worrying. Still the archbishop has not published the financial audit requested. He just plays games with us. The reality is no one on Guam can do anything about the archbishop. Only one above him can do something. And at the close of the day he only answers to the pope no one else. So he will get away with everything as not even the pope knows about Guam. However, we do thank Tim and junglewatch for now opening up the problems to the world on this blog. Amazing respect for Tim Rohr and for the integrity,and skill of which he writes. Don't know how he finds the time to study, pray, reflect, and identify idetails, to share with readers. But his work is a a blessing to Guam. Great respect for Tim for his sense of justice and understanding

  6. Anon 2:18,

    Agreed. Sects come and go, but we can't let them take our assets. On another note, I am inspired by the Pope's example of paternal guidance to Kiko. Many of us would take the easy road and kick Kiko and his sect out of the Church, but the Pope takes the hard road and exercises his paternal duty in a gentle way, trying to save their souls instead of excommunicating them. I wonder how long the Pope will remain patient with Kiko before he no longer spares him the rod. I say give it to him now. lol

  7. I can't wait to see Kiko, his Kikos and the Archbishop in Purgatory!

  8. We, faithful Catholics believe that Purgatory does exist. Purgatory is a spiritual state that purifies the soul from the attachment of sin. We know that not even a spectacle of sin can enter Heaven. It may help to think of Purgatory like having a major surgery to save your life. You need a major surgery to remove a cancerous tumor. The surgery removes the tumor but the wound from the tumor still exist. The wound needs to heal and be clean. Purgatory is like part of recovery. The healing and cleaning of the wound will grant you Heaven.
    We should do everything to remove the attachment of sin by obtaining indulgences of spiritual and corporal works of mercy so that the punishment due to sin will be remove. Moreover, we should make it a habit to receive the Sacrament of Penance as well. God forgives our sins for as long as the sinner is truly sorry.

    St. Dimas is a perfect example. This saint acknowledged Christ as his redeeming savior and was very repentant of his sins. Jesus promised Heaven.
    This act of love gives us hope and reassures us of Gods total love and mercy for us.
    Jesus death on the cross teaches us that he is loving and merciful. His justice, though, demands while good comes rewards and evil ways will lead to punishment if not repentant. We should not view Purgatory as a place of pain, although, the suffering is only temporary. We especially pray for the forgotten souls in Purgatory so that they too can reach Heaven. So for all those who do not believe in Purgatory, I ask you to reflect deeply on this doctrine. It is part of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Penny

  9. Purgatory is very simple. The Apocalypse says we all go to the purgatory immediately after death waiting for the Last Judgment of the Lord. Personal judgement is done of course, according to our record of un-repented and un-confessed sins: we get a measure of suffering or bliss how to spend our time there in the "waiting room" for the Final Judgment. This is purgatory.

    Time is not measured by years, days or hours. There is no watch to look at in purgatory. Time flows differently for each individual solely determined by God. Some will experience a few years, days or hours. Other may find it like eternity. But all this will come to a close at the Day of Judgment, when all souls depart from purgatory either to heaven or to hell. That will be the end of it. After judgment day the purgatory will close its doors for good!

    I am praying for everyone who are in purgatory now or in the future so that the time they experience there may be short. I am also praying for those of my beloved who may have died with un-repented sins, that they may not end up in the eternal suffering of hell. God the Father and the Lord Jesus will show mercy and their love for us at the Final Judgment. I even offer myself as exchange for eternal suffering, so that my beloved may be saved. I know God is merciful and will hear the cry of the lowly and the humble interceding for their own.

    1. Thanks for pitching in. Just a few issues though. As you know, the strength of anything I post is my references. I would encourage anyone who wants to elaborate on a church teaching to do the same. A couple of things: I don't believe it says "we all go to purgatory" in the Apocalypse. In fact, we can be sure that not all go, since some go to hell and certainly martyrs go directly to heaven. So you may want to clarify. Also there is no bliss in purgatory, nor is there any opportunity to repent of un-repented sin. You are correct though about the concept of time.

    2. Thanks for agreeing on the concept of time. This is where everything is coming from. Those who so "straight" to heaven or hell, experience purgatory as no time at all. God slides them through the whole expanse of all remaining time by a fraction of a moment and they end up in their allotted place "immediately".
      However, those who need purification, will experience the same time as much longer: decades, centuries or even thousand of years. That is why there is no entering heaven or hell before the Last Judgment Day, but the time until then may collapse into minuscule or extend to ages. This all is the exact same thing as the teaching in Catechism. The only point is that time is more elaborated and thus the Catechism completely makes sense.
      Bliss in purgatory is the future promise of heaven. No repentance in purgatory is possible of course, but I may pray for those bound to hell so that when they leave the purgatory, it is not going down for them for eternal suffering, but up to eternal joy. I pray that God allows me to take eternal suffering on me for them, so that they may be with God forever. Read:

      11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
      12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
      13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
      14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
      15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
      Apocalypse 20:11-15

    3. No. You cannot pray for those who are "bound for hell". First no one knows who is "bound to hell". And second, if they are condemned to hell, there is no purgatory for them. Purgatory is for those who are bound to heaven but are still stained with the vestiges of sin. I'll explain this later, but please, for now, just read the Catechism.

  10. Tim just to clarify. Are you saying a person who dies with an unrepemted sin on them cannot repent after. If that person enters purgatory, the only way for advancement to the eternal vision of God is through the prayers of people on earth. That sounds logical. But kiko teaches, and I am not walking, most people go,to heaven direct so need to,worry. But I do,worry about those I loved who died and unrepemted formally. What about people who may repent direct to god at death but not in confession. Many questions now arise about the dead. Kiko's teaching makes me happy as I an believe all my loved ones are in heaven. But supposing there not and we follow kiko. I talked to,a NCW catechist he told me when he does he is going direct to heaven and he knows it. Direct to his place in heaven. I want to believe this, but in my heart know it may not be so. So it's all confusing now with this new concept being taught by NCW.

    1. You question and confusion demonstrates why it is best to check with the Church, not a catechist, and check with the Catechism of the Catholic Church and not Kiko's, which you can't anyway because he keeps it from you.

      The Church's teaching about Catechism is both short and clear and I would recommend that you read the paragraphs I noted in the post.

      The whole point in the composition of the Catechism was to assist the average Catholic in knowing exactly what the Church teaches so we wouldn't be left to our own devices to assemble doctrines from stuff we heard over the years or worse, taught wrongly. That more pastors do not use the Catechism, don't quote from it, don't encourage study of it, is why it was so easy for the Neo to take hold in the first place. Maybe now they will see that and change.

      That said, let me share a few things to assist you, and everything I say is based in the Catechism.

      First, when it comes to our dearly departed, it is best to take St. Padre Pio's advice and "pray, hope, and don't worry." Only God knows the heart. And while he is all-just he is also all-merciful. We know that he wants all men to to return to him. However, he will never overrule our free will.

      While confession is the ordinary means of reconciliation with God, God himself is always the extraordinary means. A man does not have to go to confession to repent. In some cases he may not be able to go. And I think this may be what you mean about dying with un-repented sin. If we die obstinate in our sin, then no, there is no opportunity to repent after death. If we die, having not confessed a sin in the sacrament of confession, but in our hearts we are repentant, then God knows the heart. However, the rejection of his sacrament, if that is why one did not go to confession, would be part of God's judgement as well. But in any case, everything is entirely up to God. So we "pray, hope, and don't worry."

      Again, just read the Catechism. I'll make a more thorough post about this later.

    2. I don't think I cannot do anything for my son who died unrepented instantly in a car accident on the mainland. He has never cared much for God and his divorce was not approved by Vatican. He left his wife and two beautiful kids behind to start a new life with that woman on the mainland. I scolded him all the time but he just laughed me off.
      I know he would go to hell if I don't pray for him. His kids miss him bad and I pray that they may be all together in heaven one day. I cannot tell them that their father is in hell, that would break their hearts. But God is merciful and He will allow me to take the slot for him in hell so that he may be freed up to go to heaven to be with God and his true family one day. I would gladly suffer for eternity for their joy to see each other and be together in heaven.
      God is not a cruel god who separates the loved ones from each other, the children from the father. There is no such god. This is my prayer and I just keep praying every day to a merciful God who is my Heavenly Father and Lord Jesus Christ.

    3. I am sorry about your son's death. But you do not know that he died unrepentant. Christ desires that all men be saved (1 Timothy 2:4). Because of this we can believe that Christ continues to seek out his lost sheep, even those who reject him, until the very last instance of life.

      Yes, God is merciful and will allow you to "take the slot for him", but not in hell. Hell is final. I recently lost my father. He rejected the Church for 50 years. I do not know if in his heart he ever really rejected Christ. I do not know for the same reason you do not know about your son.

      You are correct. God is not a cruel God. He is Love. And because he is love he leaves us free to reject him. If our loved ones chose hell then there is nothing you or I can do about it. But I believe that just before death, Christ came to my father and my father accepted his invitation. You should believe the same about your son. And then pray, hope, and don't worry.

      All this is in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, so before you comment again on this subject, please read it. I'd say "see a priest", but maybe this is where this confusion started.

    4. Thank you, Tim. I am also sorry for your loss. I am familiar with the traditional Catholic teaching about the heaven, hell, purgatory etc. I just feel like we should have a chance for those loved ones who did not care for themselves and died in sin. You say there is not much we can do for them. But this is hurting a lot and I just cannot accept it. God is merciful and there must be some way for them. I know it is unknown territory, so we can only speculate...

    5. We can do more than speculate, we can hope. Again, ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART. Neither you or I can know the eternal fate of our loved ones, not just your son or my father, but every single one. So continue to hope and pray.

  11. Pity you guys. I'm walking to heaven, it's already begun for me so don't have your problems. To the lady who lost her son, he has entered the new Jerusalem . For you now you need to get walking mam. Join a community and Walk.

    1. I let the above comment be posted so I could comment on it. This is a comment by someone who is not in the Way and thinks he is helping by posting it. You are not helping. You aren't. Keep this kind of crap off my blog. I have enough to do without having to sort through impostor posts.

  12. There was a comment on the editorial page yesterday June 1, about Purgatory not being mentioned in the bible and just a made up place. It was from a Lutheran point of view. I wonder if Tim can submit to PDN similar explanation with what was posted here to help our lost brothers and sisters find the truth. Thank you!

  13. I look forward to that posting Tim.

    1. It will probably be printed over the weekend. Thanks.