Tim, what is with that "Toddler-sized" Marian statue at the Sweet Name of Mary fiesta? ??This is part of the brainwashing propaganda of inserting Neo art and paraphernalia into the Cathedral. We are NOT fools! Stop adding on anything else. The statue of Dulce Nombre had sufficed for so many years, there is no need for "supplemental" statues. Even the image of Santa Marian Kamalen is set behind The Sweet Name of Mary, for the fiesta! Soon enough that kiko will do (another ugly) caricature, rip offs of images of the Dulce Nombre and Santa Marian Kamalen, then the Neos will conveniently incorporate them into the altar or anywhere else in the Cathedral, for that matter. .. Just watch! Leave the Cathedral and its traditions! Before the last few Parishioners leave. Sadly, this may all be a part of the Neos diabolical plans afterall. Been trying to get those Neos back into the Mother Church. So the Neos took it! They just don't want the real Catholics to be in the Mother Church with them!
The archbishop explained at last night's fiesta mass that the Nina Maria statue had been used for processions before WWII and that the family had donated the statue to the church. And that in the future the statue will be used in processions. He said it is important to remember that Mary was a child first before she was the mother of Jesus. And that we are celebrating Mary's childhood. Like Anonymous @ 7:44 a.m. I too am suspicious and wondering if the statue is part of the NCW takeover. It may be a perfectly innocent change-but maybe it isn't innocent. We will know in time...
Will be getting back to you on this.
Slowly but surely this Kiko Arguello will make his way into all our churches if he is not stopped. Enough is enough!!
If we can't beat 'em, join 'em! I say our non-neo priests should be 'obedient' to Archbishop Apuron and join. These priests can then impart the teachings they've learned instead of Kiko's teachings and say the mass the right way instead of Kiko's way. Let's use the Archbishop's power to our advantage!!
Why can't we beat them? We need to stand up against evil. Standing by injustice and thinking you can change something from within will not work.
I too am upset about the NIna Maria statue. I understood that the family was given the statue for safe keeping during the war and it is only now that this is "replica" is being returned. So why do we need to use this image for the celebration of the namesake of the mother church. It is the mother church of Guam....not the child. The Cathedral should be represented by an image that represents the full depth of our faith on Guam. Our church is over 400 years old and the image that represents this church must be one of an adult,,,,not a child. The pictures in the museum showing precession in Agana is of a women, not a child. I also asked my 80 year old mother who was from Agana, and she has never heard of this statue ever being used for the celebration of Ducle Nombre de Maria. When San Vitores named the church Dulce Nombre de Maria, I a pretty sure he was envisioning a full adult Mother of God. The image used for this celebration should be one truly reflect the entire life of the blessed mother-not her childhood. I am sure as a child she too didn't have the comprehension of her role in life would be. This change is symbolic of the new administration desire to change the Cathedral church. The Cathedral is a "child" being reformed into a neo parish. Do not be fooled. This is symbolic of the AAA, David, etc....to remold the Cathedral in their image...not the image of the traditional church.
As I sarcastically mentioned in the "What's Wrong With This Picture?" post here on the JW, AAA wants to tell Pope Francis that he has the first Neo Archdiocese in the world. The faithful Catholics on Guam have been warned. It started with the conversion of the San Vicente/San Roke parish in Barrigada into the NCW headquarters, then the removal of the statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe, and now the placement of the Nina Maria in front of Santa Marian Kamalen. Mark my words, you just may see Nina Maria in front of, if not REPLACING Santa Marian Kamalen in the procession on her feast day. Little by little, AAA is chipping away at our parishes, our traditions and our faith, all in the name of his new pope and savior, Kiko. Our Church is only as strong as its people, and it's time we stand up and defend our parishes, our clergy and our Church! Another Great Schism seems to be lurking around the corner....I heard at mass this weekend about a second collection for the Archdiocese to send to Rome for mission work, if I'm not mistaken. Right...sounds like the NCW is not bringing in enough money, so AAA may be using this collection to funnel money to his NCW masters. I could be wrong but then again I could be right. I would rather have my parish send the check to Rome directly instead of sending it to the Archdiocese first. Hey, that's an idea! We should just bypass AAA and send it directly to Rome! I think it will go where it's intended/needed immediately instead of letting AAA and his Pendejos siphon it first. I have no problem supporting parish activities with second collections, but when the Archdiocese is mentioned, my fraud alarm goes off. I'm not supporting the slush fund for AAA and his Pendejos to fly first class and take over parishes. I think they have enough brainwashed people to steal from. But that's just me.
AAA takes his cut before he send it out ? A percentage of all collected is given to AAA/NEO....
There's a lot more that can be said about Kiko's timeline. I only concentrated on the history of the Church, and neglected, for the time being, the left side of the timeline. Taken together, Kiko is describing his version of Salvation History. There are a few interesting things to notice about that side of the picture. For one, he doesn't start out with the Fall of Man, as you would expect, but rather with Abraham. He does have Moses and David in there, as he should, but he leaves out a lot in favor of the Babylonian Exile. Why is that? The exile certainly is part of Salvation History, but why let it dominate the timeline? Well, notice that Ezra and Nehemiah are listed. Ezra and Nehemiah were a priest and layman who rebuilt Jerusalem after the Exile and reestablished proper Temple worship and the practice of the Mosaic Law in Jerusalem. Of course, this was good, but their presence on the timeline and the emphasis on the Exile is supposed to complement the time that the Holy Spirit was asleep between Constantine and the Second Vatican Council and Kiko's arrival. Ezra and Nehemiah "rebuilt Judaism" (Kiko's words) and Kiko will rebuild the Church.So the question is, is the Church destroyed, like Jerusalem after the Exile, and are we looking for the Church to be rebuilt? Or, despite our sinfulness, has the Holy Spirit indeed been at work in our Church since Constantine, and are we are instead seeking authentic renewal?
False Tradition (from http://www.cathud.com/RESOURCES_CATHOLIC/pages_MR/Neocatechumenal_Way_Kiko_Arguello.html)According to Kiko, the history of the true Church founded by Christ came to an end with the Pax Constantinia and does not resume its course until the 20th century with the Second Vatican Council, having remained frozen for about 1600 years.The Neocatechumenate insist its intention is to return to a way of being Church that's similar to the first Christian communities. There is a half truth here because undoubtedly in the early Church people would have met in small groups, secretly and behind closed doors. But this was not because such a mode of carrying on was intrinsic to Christianity; it was the result of the intermittent persecution the Church suffered during the first three hundred years. Once the persecution ended, the Church quickly evolved into a more open structure.The Church has condemned on more than one occasion the primitive concept of tradition which harps back in a simplistic way to what the early Christians did or didn't do. Sacred tradition is not something one needs to go digging for with a JCB and a bevy of professional archaeologists and historians in tow. Sacred Tradition is a living thing which is passed on from one generation of Catholics to the next and unfolds, develops and grows over the centuries under the guidance of the Magisterium and the breath of the Spirit. The Church today may be likened to a large and beautiful oak tree; it is quite ridiculous to bewail the fact that it no longer resembles the original acorn.There is much similarity between the Way's false concept of tradition and that of the Protestant reformers - and indeed of much goofy post-Conciliar thought. The line of thinking goes something like this: the Holy Spirit was in the early Church, but somehow disappeared from the scene at some time. The Church then became corrupt or at least spiritually dead for centuries. However, fortuitously the Holy Spirit turned up again on my birthday, or at Vatican II, or on some other momentous occasion involving me, or with which I am personally empathetic, and now all can be restored to it original purity. "Original Purity" of course being a loose concept that I reserve the right to define as suits my personal taste.Actually this teaching that the Church went astray after the Peace of Constantine comes out of the Baptist sect. Some Baptist apologists argue that theirs is not a church which was formed at the Reformation, but that they are a sort of remnant of Bible-believing Christians left over from the first four centuries, before the Peace of Constantine. This sort of historical gobbledygook is their imaginative response to the Catholic claim that a church founded sixteen centuries after the death of Christ by the Protestant reformers can hardly claim to be the church founded by Christ.To refute this nonsense, one need merely point out that for the first four centuries there was no New Testament, the collection of twenty-seven books as we know it, for these "Bible-believing" Christians to base their faith upon. The list of twenty-seven separate books which were to be finally included in the New Testament was drawn up by the Church after the Peace of Constantine - as also was the formulation of the doctrines of the Trinity and of the Divinity of Christ - not bad for a "corrupt" Church!__________________________________________________________________________The above is just a part of the entire article @ http://www.cathud.com/RESOURCES_CATHOLIC/pages_MR/Neocatechumenal_Way_Kiko_Arguello.htmlThe write-up is one of the most comprehensive analysis I've found so far of the Neocatechumenal Way.
Thank you for sharing- Very interesting articles Chuck and anon 11:45!
Yes, thank you very much Mr. White & Anonymous 11:45 for sharing. Very interesting indeed.
I simply have to say. This information has been a very thoughtful and intelligent look into Kiko's approach and the comparison to the real history of the church. Thank you for taking the time to explain it so eloquently. Scary indeed to think how much is said, by not saying, or in this case omitting so much history. Scary because it has the power to influence vulnerable trusting people who have blind faith and don't think to question. Chuck this maybe a tall order but it would be very revealing to actually see a comparison graph of both not only for us visual people, but I am sure it may even surprise the Neo's themselves to see such discrepancies. Surly they would know you used real facts. Unlike Kiko who just made up a fictitious story line to suit himself. Fictitious because of the numerous omissions you cited. Again many many thanks for sharing your insights and your great dedication to understanding the church on numerous levels.
Tim I am not knowledgable about the history of the church nor have I studied theology in any way. I do however have vast experience of having been a neo cat for very many years (14). My experience is probably similar in some ways to others who have left this cult however the depth of our involvement as a family has had lasting and very damaging long reaching effects on our family. I have written a long and detailed yet very personal journal over the last 7 years and when I read back over some of the events and experiences I find myself psychlogically confused, hurt and with very bitter regret. However the damage cannot be undone but the determination we have in helping our family heal gives us strength, as does the church which we still love so much. Sadly our children still struggle greatly and are vrry far from the faith. There neefs to be a safe platform from which ex members can feel they can speak out and rid themselves of whatever pain they have been burdened with. Im not sure if the junglewatch is the right venue but Im happy that you have provided at least a place to open the discussion on a theological level to show that the ncw acts as its own seperate church. I hope in the future to have an opportunity to share, without fear or shame, the experience we had and how our minds were influenced and shaped so radically. Thanks God Bless " J "
I was wondering if in the NCW the youths are in separate communities or are they blended in with the adults?
The youth are blended in, although not necessarily in the same community as their parents. As a matter of fact, husbands and wives can be in different communities if they join at different times. This is a big problem and certainly DOES NOT reflect the practice of the primitive church.
1:27 AM Praying for your recovery. Ask God for forgiveness and forgive yourself too. Stop punishing yourself with painful memories. Live your life as a follower of Christ in His Church. With God's guidance and blessings take care of yourself, your family and friends , as they are your core support group.
A general comment about the "Nina Maria". You are all correct to be suspicious of the purpose and timing of the introduction of this statue. I'll have more to say about this. But if the Archbishop really believed that this was the correct statue to be using all along, there was no need to wait until he replaced Msgr. James. The Archbishop is the pastor of the Cathedral and could have made the correction long ago. He did not. There is therefore another reason for its sudden introduction or "re-introduction", if that is in fact what it is. More later.
Regarding the timeline, I was taught basic Church history in high school and the time from Constantine to Vatican II was not a "sleeping" time. Jesus Christ Himself promised to send the Advocate to be with the Church always. The Church was not in apostasy - how brazen to even infer such a claim!I do wonder why the fall of man is not included in Kiko's timeline when Jesus' sacrifice is directly linked to that very first sin in the garden. Why and how does he disregard this pertinent part of the timeline?
Because the NEOCATS don't believe that Jesus sacrificed Himself or is the sacrificial Lamb. No sacrifice then no link to Eden.
!:57 Oh "J" My heart goes out to you. I could feel such sadness and disappointment in your words and yet underlying it all was such sweetness and hope. It seems a lovely idea to me if there was a "Recovering Neo Support Group" or a " Reclaiming True Faith" group (positive tone). I sincerely hope something comes of it for you, and others who must feel the same.You Dear One are courageous to reach out here. It shows you are honorable and your deep love for your true church and family. Tim has been extraordinarily generous of his time demonstrating a sincere and selfless effort to provide this blog. Many positive and negative things have been revealed about what happens within the Guam Catholic Church and community. Practices of the Catholic Church, Neo movement and the Catholic Church's long history. I have come to realize much wisdom can be gained right here. Learning about the Catholic church and her teachings, has spilt over to daily living and practice. With 24 hour access, we have an unlimited opportunity to gain valuable knowledge, that we normally would not be exposed to, and we can spend as much time as we like on it to expand our awareness. It has increased my appreciation for the church. My time has been well spent thinking more about the church. It has resulted in me being more mindful of God in my heart and mind on a daily basis. As I focus more, on this knowledge of the church and her teachings, I live and practice it more, becoming a better person and so is my life.The flip side of this positive spiritual learning, has been the massive amount of negative on going drama. This of itself is also an opportunity, to be more discerning, to research, reflect and pray. To find forgiveness and love in our heart. Allowing us to rise above the darkness and to not be swallowed up by the negative feelings and emotions of disgust. These we could easily otherwise allow, to over power us and our understanding and feeling of that in dwelling presence of the Most High. What I have grown to appreciate, has been intelligence and knowledge from which some of the bloggers write. They have proven to be very discerning over the course of time in spite of all the on going drama and people's reaction to it. "J" I pray you, your family and all others like you, experience true spiritual support and tools at this time to heal any past pain. May you feel whole again with in the Blessed True Church. May God bless you and your family. Your concern and sincerity I deeply cherish.
What seems to be innocent changes with the NeoAdmin and Apuron surely is NOT. It's all part of their diabolical schemes. "Biba Baby Mary" at the end of the Mass instead of "Biba Dulce Nombre" IS THE SAME AS"Obey KIKO ARGUELLO And the Neo Way" instead of "Obey the Pope and the true Catholic Way Worship"I am happy to see that people are getting it...keep that FIRE TO FIGHT THIS WAR burning! !!
Did they really say "Biba Baby Mary"????
I had already exited the cathedral before the Bibas so I don't know if they really were told to exclaim, "Biba Baby Mary!" If so, it would have been weird. What puzzles me especially in light of the Nina Maria mini-statue was that the day before on Friday evening Msgr. David C. Quitugua preached a beautiful homily about the significance of Mary and referred to her importance all over the world. And he pointed to her images in the cathedral's stain-glassed windows and elsewhere in the church. He sounded very enthusiastic about Mary which surprised me because I thought the NCW doesn't have reverence for Mary. Are the 3 on the Hill playing mind games on us?
yes...David was the one who started the Biba Nina Maria...NOT Biba Dulce Nombre De Maria or Santa Maria which has always been the tradition.
Smell a rat in the Nina Maria story.
How can the Vatican see pass this all and still let them continue?!
The Vatican has seen and still sees much worse. The popes worked for many years with the likes of Henry VIII and Martin Luther before giving up on them.
As Archbishop Apuron has seemingly become victorious in making the Archdiocese of Agana an Exclusively Neo Archdiocese, another support service MUST be provided by the Church, after that Apuron has been removed.The Archdiocese of Agana MUST provide a service that is like Alcoholic Anonymous. This addiction--- being part of this NEOcult need to be handled by no less than thoroughly trained psychology professionals, in order for the members and their families to heal from this terrible affliction of the brain. The NEOs dependency in 'the way' can only be severed by acknowledging that, first, they are ADDICTS, of course.As drugs and alcohol have hurt families, tore core groups apart and continue to create pain in the community, this also holds true of the Neocatecumenal Way. I do not have to be a former addict to not want to abuse drugs or alcohol, most especially, we need not be a former member to know that the NEO is truly a detriment for our Church and our island!Get APURON OUT, remove ALL chances of NEO Leadership and stifle the wildfire that has ravaged our Catholic Church by this Cult called 'the neocatecumenal way'
He won't go anywhere. Deal with it.
To Tim, Anon. 11:36 AM, & Anon. 1:27 AM, (and everyone who still are part of our True Catholic Faith):We are staring reality in the face here. The NEOCATS are being aggressive, not passive, they have taken over the central Parish (OUR Basilica) and now (not are) have turned the Basilica into a Neo Parish. No doubt! Don't be fooled. At first it is a slow change here, and there, and there, and soon enough, it will be 100% a Basilica for the NEOCATS, not for the Universal Catholic Church.How foolish for the NEOCATS to think that they are going to "slowly" invade the Universal Church with their illicit practices. They continue to disregard the statutes and The Order of the Mass especially during Consecration. Do you see how Non-NEO Priests are when they pronounce the Good News and give the Homily? For the Neo Priests, aside from the lack of mastery or average English speaking Evangelists they claim to be, I see the difference in the demeanor in how the Non-NEO Priests respectfully and gently treat the Body and Blood of Christ. Look into their eyes, their body language, their support staff on their "stage". It is a total disregard for reverence. It seems like it is just a "procedure" they need to follow, for now anyways (at least that is how I see their way of thinking).Before making this comment, I made it a point to observe at least 5 NEOCAT Priests. In their version of the Liturgical Celebration, I don't see the reverence I see in the Non-NEO Priests. I understood one thing clearly from an old time Priest friend of mine. He would tell me that if we approach the Liturgy to include the Good News, Homily, and the Eucharistic Celebration for the Mass as if it was our first and our last, we would realize a greater experience in receiving the Good News and the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is, I believe, the abyss that separates the Non-Neo Priest and the Neo-Priests. Just observe and you can see the difference in animations, gestures, and most of all, look into their eyes, you can tell if you've experienced the feeling of Persona Christi in the Celebrant. You can't hide or lie about this part. It is obvious if you look closely. Stay guarded and don't be sucked in like Fr. O.J.'s radical Neo-based evangilization. And yes, the testimonials should not even be part of the mass but this is becoming more and more 'allowed" by the Neo-Celebrat ( Celebrat is said here on purpose). They HAVE TO do it this WAY because it is coming from the KIKO-AIDs that tell them it has to be done (Yes, AAA has them under his thumb, and Pius has AAA under his palm). We should still maintain our reverence for the True Catholic Eucharistic Celebration and continue to maintain the momentum of not succumbing to these NEO-CATS. They may have 2/3 of our Parishes but they DO NOT have 2/3 of our True Catholic Based Population. Stay strong everyone!...It will come to be a war that was started by AAA and he continues to add fuel to the fire either by commission of a lie or the omission of information. We are not as illiterate or lacking of critical thinking as the 3 Billy Goats on the Hill think. We are TRUE CATHOLICS!
I saw Fr. Adrian with two seminarians and two other guests at Ruby Tuesday, but for some reason, never felt the need to bow a little or to get his hand to my forehead (make "amen" in Filipino). When I see Fr. Paul or the other priests, it is so natural to do this. It might just be me.
What were they eating? I've heard that when NCW priests and seminarians eat out they buy the most expensive items on the menu since they aren't paying for it-we are!
Who pays for Fr. Adrian to wine dine, dance, and dump seminarians?
I hope it comes out of his pocket...he is the administrator of his late father's estate!
May be we need to start life style checks. Who pays for the expensive meals. Why is there no cook in the rectory preparing a community meal where Fr. Adrian can invite the guests. Food would be healthy and much cheaper prepared in the rectory. Not a good sign to see Fr.Adrian eating in expensive hotels all over Guam. He may well be very rich, but in the church of Pope Francis he should live a simple life .
Ruby Tuesday, Part of Adrian's recruiting for the JPII Seminary...gotta fill that up so no one will see that Yona done got given away! Don't get excited there is another seminary in Malojloj.....sneaky plan....just wait. Two seminaries. I am mumbling to myself.
C'mon folks, ruby Tuesday is hardly considered an expensive restaurant.
C'mon 10:44 AM. Ruby Tuesday is expensive for seminarians who haven't a dime in their pocket and need to mooch off others! get real!
Silence is calm before the storm.
Silence is a little EERIE!
When we face challenges we pray to Mother Mary to intercede for us as she interceded for the couple at Cana. Her exaltation came after the Angel's visit. This latest lapse in sanity makes perfect sense only to AAA.
To AnonymousSeptember 15, 2014 at 10:04 PM comment: "He won't go anywhere. Deal with it."As super tempting it is to quietly accept and "deal with it," in terms of Apuron. I would have to politely say "no, thank you."Now, if you're saying fight for the Catholic Church And "deal with it," then be assured not to worry, we NON-NEOS are fighting Apuron and the Neos!