Monday, December 15, 2014

APURON DOESN'T NEED BODY GUARDS



  • >"I guess you confuse, revealing the truth, unveiling the lies as being attacks"

    That's hardly the case. The problem with interpreting absolutely everything AAA does in the worst way possible (ie. having protection when he feels that his person is being threatened) is that it dilutes the valid and reasonable criticisms people have of AAA.

    Criticizing men dressed in black and khaki hardly seems important. What truth is revealed in doing so?


    >"We know the problem the Church is facing, it is called the NCW and its endless procession of lies and deceit. What is there to discuss?"

    There are many wonderful people in the NCW, even Tim concedes this. Their goal is to move closer to God. Isn't the the stated goal of Christianity?

    If you take the stance that there can be no more discussion and thus no room for reasoning - even with these people of good intention - then the harm to the Church may be far worse than you imagine.

    The danger I see is that so many people are taking pleasure in the fight itself. There are many wonderful people who will be harmed, however this drama plays out.



    "To hide amongst the bodyguards while walking behind the Karosa shows his fear and his unending doubt that the Santa Marian Kamalen would not protect him. "

    Jump off a cliff and pray to Santa Marian Kamalen to protect. Having faith doesn't mean you should go out and do something stupid. It's this sort of petty criticism that distracts from the valid ones.

    "Didn't the Lord say, " Do not be afraid for I am with you always?""

    Jump off a plane without a parachute and report back to us about fear, faith, and leaving absolutely everything up to Santa Marian Kamalen. Faith is a wonderful thing, however it may not mean what you think it means.
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  • December 14 at 9:33

    You say: The problem with interpreting absolutely everything AAA does in the worst way possible (ie. having protection when he feels that his person is being threatened) is that it dilutes the valid and reasonable criticisms people have of AAA.

    I say: Why does AAA feel “that his person is being threatened”? Threatened by whom? Why did he remain cowering in his office when John Toves went to see him? Why did he not just come out and calmly confront John Toves and say that John Toves was wrong, that he never touched his relative? Why has AAA never even proclaimed his innocence to the rest of us? AAA is being threatened by THE TRUTH and no amount of bodyguards will protect him from that.

    You say: There are many wonderful people in the NCW, even Tim concedes this. Their goal is to move closer to God. Isn't the the stated goal of Christianity?

    I say: I have always made a distinction between those who joined the NCW for the right reasons and the Kiko’s. Sadly the good people in the NCW are even greater victims than the rest of us. They are the ones that are most lied to and most abused by the NCW leadership. The biggest lie is that “the liturgy has been approved”, referring to the NCW liturgy. It’s a lie Apuron tells all the time and its a lie that he tells every time he celebrates his NCW “eucharist”.

    You say: If you take the stance that there can be no more discussion and thus no room for reasoning - even with these people of good intention - then the harm to the Church may be far worse than you imagine. The danger I see is that so many people are taking pleasure in the fight itself. There are many wonderful people who will be harmed, however this drama plays out.

    I say: And yes, and how sad it is that Apuron has not taken the leadership and publicly shown us that what we believe to be your insistent disobedience to Rome is only our imaginings. He could put this whole thing to rest with a public statement and posting the “approval” in the U Matuna. We would have nothing. This all would have been silenced long ago. But he won’t because he can’t. Because he’s lying. AGAIN. There is no pleasure in this fight. The “harm to the Church” is what you have brought to it and what Apuron has allowed to continue. How sick to believe that we who stand up against lies and error and Apuron’s bullying are the problem. Sick.

    You say: Jump off a cliff and pray to Santa Marian Kamalen to protect. Having faith doesn't mean you should go out and do something stupid. It's this sort of petty criticism that distracts from the valid ones.

    I say: Ah yes, now you reveal yourself. You have no argument for AAA. You make jumping off a cliff and praying for protection (the sin of presumption) to simply walking in a procession. If Apuron felt truly threatened then he should have had real guards, not pretend ones. But no, he did not want real guards, he wanted to make a show. He wanted to show how he is the persecuted one. Narcissist that he is, he wanted the procession to be all about him.

    Apuron does not need bodyguards, he needs soul-guards.
  • 37 comments:

    1. He got bodyguards because his tires were slashed again.

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      Replies
      1. Yah. Right. I will go to the police today and ask to see the police report.

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      2. I guess your spy at the chancery forgot to tell you about why they have security cameras all over. The police? Why not just ask your spy?

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      3. tim you cutting tires now ?

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      4. Perhaps it's not AAA who needs the protection as much as his car.

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      5. Yah, and Diana said that's why she won't reveal herself. She doesn't want her tires slashed. That's what she said!

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      6. 7:27. Correction. Spies. Plural. Apuron (and you) have no idea. How fun. If Apuron's tires were slashed then he would have reported it to the police, don't you think? Especially if he believes himself to be personally threatened? If there is no police report then obviously Apuron is either lying (AGAIN), or he really doesn't believe there is any serious threat. Of course having Harold go out and slash his tires for him is something we all wouldn't put past Apuron to do, is it.

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      7. to anon at 9.50, thank you for the info. Now we know that she is a modern woman. The lil' woman actually has a car, and she drives....Whoa!!!! I am sure these big hands of hers would come in handy if her tires were slashed......
        Oh!!!!! the persecution!!!!

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      8. 8:32.ha ha ha Thanks for the humor. It's so nice to have a giggle in amongst all this heated passion of words. I'm sure you will agree that Tim spends so much time here in the Jungle he has no time to cut tires.

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    2. Heard it was keyed? Can't even get the lies straight! !! Who cares about your stupid lavish car apuron!

      We should be the ones with bodyguards against you. Our young faithful must be protected from you! After all, no investigation has proven you not guilty. Nor have you ever proclaimed it yourself! !! We cannot be sure but I am sure, as Jesus is the true Messiah not kiko, that I would not leave my children around you... even near you!

      Get off your high horse! You should really seek advise from Msgr. James and other REAL priests on how to act. Your stupidity and arrogance annoy and anger us to no bounds! Step down! And take your NeoCancers with you! !!

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    3. Maybe it wasn't slashed and it was torn up by the road to AAA mansion pivate residence in Adacao. Maybe Harold needs to drive better and ease up on the speed to get away from the public.

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      Replies
      1. Have some respect. Father Vice-Rector Harold!

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    4. Apuron doesn't need bodyguards.

      We need bodyguards FROM him and the neoterrors.

      The nerve! !!

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    5. Oh the mansion, where specifically instructed and he sent out an email that the family gathering at his mansion is STRICTLY family only. No other guests. No uninvited guests, that is. All are no longer welcome.

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      Replies
      1. Otherwise, somebody might post some pictures of the Adacao estate on the "hate blogs"...

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      2. I wanna wear shades and ear wire. Black Polo and Khakis and just sashay right on in like I belong there. Humming a favorite Elvis tune Blue Christmas without you! I'll let you know if my plan works. I might take a few sly shots with my spy pen camera. Sounds like a plan. Where the heck is Adacao? Directions anyone?

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      3. We are family, all my sisters and me! We are family! Where is this Mansion? Aren't we one big happy FAM? I feel lonely and left out. : ((

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      4. How can Archie really think of throwing Christmas parties...he better go out and invite the homeless or Pope Francis will surely nail him. Hear that your Excellency?

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    6. to Anon at 7.13:
      I love the logic, absolutely profound and well thought of.
      "he got bodyguards because his tires were slashed again" It is like saying, I have a hole in my shoe, so I will purchase a ladder...... so logical....

      But then again the guilt and the bad conscience might suggest to brother Anthony that one of these silent victims might actually go bizzerk.....??? ummmm really a Cornelian dillemma

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    7. Bodyguards? Really? Doesn’t this archbishop realize that by resorting to such pompous display of bodyguards for himself during the biggest celebration on the island of Our Lady’s title as Our Lady of Kamalen celebrated by Guamanian devotees that he himself, by this act 1) publicly showed his callous regard of procession attendees and 2) publicly confirmed to many the message that he is not the shepherd of the Catholic Faithful of this Archdiocese.

      His actions clearly displayed his arrogance and a lack of humility, rather than solicit the faithful’s sympathy or the faithful’s empathy.

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    8. APURON: Bodyguards, no matter how many, will not protect you from a guilty conscience.

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    9. >I say: Ah yes, now you reveal yourself. You have no argument for AAA.

      The funny thing about your response - claiming that I have revealed myself as an ardent AAA supporter - is that my dislike of Apuron dates way back to his rise to Archbishop. I saw signs that he was materialistic, self-serving, and power-hungry way before his NCW-centric agenda gained momentum.

      Even more laughable is that I posted a similar call for reason and openness on Diana's blog. Her response was similar to yours. Comment singled out in its own blog entry. Dissected and deemed invalid.

      I'll reveal what my real hope is:

      That the Guam Catholic community (as a whole) gains a just, compassionate, and generous leader and that the harm done to every Catholic by the current administrator - whether NCW or not - is halted and minimized.

      AAA's tires getting slashed and mocking him do nothing to realize that hope.

      Just adds noise - jeering crowd noise.

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      Replies
      1. Did I say you revealed yourself as "an ardent AAA supporter"? I didn't, did I? I didn't because that wasn't the point of my reply. You set up a strawman hypothetical that attempts to derail the point and involve the ridiculous: comparing jumping off a cliff and praying to Apuron's need for bodyguards.

        I don't believe you are seriously calling "for reason and openness" because you can't even be open about who you are. And did AAA's tires really get slashed? Do you know that? Or are you just repeating what someone else said, or what Apuron wants said?

        So far, you are just adding noise - jeering crowd noise.

        Delete
    10. Dear Anon at 9.33 and 8.22, since you take a large amount of time and effort to make a point that you want to be perceived as reasonable and well thought of, I will make a similar effort to respond to your arguments.
      I am by principle always weary of the perceived middle of the road approach in any argument.
      Indeed you cannot not look and listen to it, without taking the risk of missing an opportunity to build bridges, or looking stupid yourself, should you fail to take that opportunity.
      By the same token there is also a danger that your counterpart might try to put you to sleep to strike a fatal blow at a chosen moment.
      This is typical of Chess and Poker players, as well as the students of Clauzewitz or Lao Tzu.
      My inclination is always to beware of Wolfs in Sheep's clothing.
      Early in western philosophy, Socrates and Plato give us multiple examples of such maneuvering.
      Since you quoted me to make your points, let me revisit them.
      Your first point is based on a partial quote of my intervention: "I guess you confuse..blah blah...the lies as being attacks" and you conclude from this excerpt that it is indeed not the case, and that radicalizing the issues on the Arch positions are actually diluting the validity and reasonableness of the criticisim of the archbishop.
      You also question the attack on the men in black as not revealing anything.

      Your points here seemed reasonable, except that you are taking my points out of context. Indeed I was answering another statement of a seemingly "moderate" point of view which bemoaned impassioned attacks as being an excuse for said bodyguards.
      Indeed I started my point by saying that" the people of Guam have shown so much restraint, so much patience, so much love" and to conclude the first part of my expose with: "No, they are self-defense. (not attacks).
      Here I could go in a long explanation of Catholic philosophy on self defense and its legitimate use, but I will leave this for another time.
      My argument being that this is not the Catholic Faithful that have been using attacks but the Archbishop, the Chancery and the NCW leaders. Therefore do not blame the victims from reacting, this is lacking genuineness .
      You second point was, again using one of my quote: "We know the problem the Church is facing.....blah, blah......What is there to discuss?" From this you conclude that indeed there are many nice people in the NCW and that if we refuse dialogue, how can we heal, and move forward? In refusing dialogue we put the Church in a dangerous position.

      Again, here your point might be reasonable, but for failing to address the real issue, which is the leadership, the tenet and the actions of the NCW on this island. (lets not even attempt the global view) Putting the Onus on the traditional Catholic Faithful and the Church they represent here.
      The trail of evil deeds, the lies and the deceptions cannot be alleviated by the good intentions of the membership at large. (the road to hell is paved of good intentions that have failed).
      You cannot deny the long and exhaustive list of terrible things, this Archbishop, the Chancery and their Puppet masters: Pius and Genarini have inflicted on this Archdiocese.
      This is why I conclude: "What is there to discuss?)
      It has all been said. The only thing that could heal this diocese are actions and more actions.
      Instead of trying to build bridges, the evil doers are continuing to build walls, and making them higher everyday.
      This latest example of human wall is very telling.
      For you to use partial quotes, attempt to deflect from the real issues, and taking as gospel half truth and lies the Chancery is spreading shows, that rather than being a reasonable person trying to mend fences, you indeed are a snake that moves through the grasses, doing the bidding of the people in place, Denying, Deflecting and Attacking.
      You are more dangerous than the usual snake, because you pretend to be reasonable, and that: you are not.
      Actually you are like Apuron: a deceiver.

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    11. "Did I say you revealed yourself as "an ardent AAA supporter"? I didn't, did I?"

      When you said, "Ah yes, now you reveal yourself. You have no argument for AAA.", were you not implying I was in support of AAA?

      The only revelation was that I prefer to talk about more important issues - something other than criticizing someone for protecting himself because he felt threatened.


      "I don't believe you are seriously calling "for reason and openness" because you can't even be open about who you are."

      So people can only be reasonable and open to discussion if they reveal their identities? Why bother allowing any anonymous comments on your blog then?


      "And did AAA's tires really get slashed? Do you know that?"

      I have no idea if his tires got slashed. I read the comments on your blog and responded that it doesn’t add to the cause if anyone committed a crime against AAA, the NCW, or the Church. Again, I’ll repeat that I’ve disliked AAA since his rise to power.



      "So far, you are just adding noise - jeering crowd noise."

      You confuse a call for reason and fairness with something entirely different. My post was directed at unproductive criticism and mockery while yours was directed at me personally.

      I get it: your blog, your rules, and your style of fighting.

      I’ll keep my mouth shut and we can sift through countless comments calling all NCW members crazy devils in order to get to actionable criticisms. No more jeering crowd noise from me - strangely, only a crowd of one person.

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      Replies
      1. MY REPLY IN CAPS:

        "Did I say you revealed yourself as "an ardent AAA supporter"? I didn't, did I?"

        When you said, "Ah yes, now you reveal yourself. You have no argument for AAA.", were you not implying I was in support of AAA?

        The only revelation was that I prefer to talk about more important issues - something other than criticizing someone for protecting himself because he felt threatened.

        GREAT. START YOUR OWN BLOG AND TALK ALL YOU WANT.

        "I don't believe you are seriously calling "for reason and openness" because you can't even be open about who you are."

        So people can only be reasonable and open to discussion if they reveal their identities? Why bother allowing any anonymous comments on your blog then?

        ANONYMOUS COMMENTS ARE WELCOME. BUT THEY NORMALLY DON'T CALL FOR REASON AND OPENNESS. IF YOU ARE GOING TO CALL FOR IT THEN LET'S START WITH YOU.

        "And did AAA's tires really get slashed? Do you know that?"

        I have no idea if his tires got slashed. I read the comments on your blog and responded that it doesn’t add to the cause if anyone committed a crime against AAA, the NCW, or the Church. Again, I’ll repeat that I’ve disliked AAA since his rise to power.

        NO ONE IS COMMITTING CRIMES AGAINST AAA. IT IS AAA WHO IS COMMITTING CRIMES AGAINST US. FALSELY ACCUSING JOSEPH LASTIMOZA OF BEING A CHILD MOLESTER, FALSELY ACCUSING FR. PAUL OF DISOBEDIENCE AND SPREADING GOSSIP IMPLYING HE IS WAS IN A HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH MR. LASTIMOZA. DEFRAUDING THE CATHOLIC POPULATION OF GUAM FOR 15 YEARS ABOUT RMS. LYING ABOUT WHY LOCAL VOCATION CANNOT BE SENT OFF-ISLAND TO AN ACCREDITED SEMINARY. TRYING TO ILLEGALLY GIVE AWAY THE YONA PROPERTY TO RMS. LYING ABOUT THE CLOSURE OF THE MUSEUM. ILLEGALLY REMOVING BOTH MSGR. JAMES AND FR. PAUL. AND PUBLICLY SLANDERING BOTH OF THEM. THE LIST GOES ON.



        "So far, you are just adding noise - jeering crowd noise."

        You confuse a call for reason and fairness with something entirely different. My post was directed at unproductive criticism and mockery while yours was directed at me personally.

        YES, DIRECTED AT YOU PERSONALLY BECAUSE YOU PERSONALLY CRITICIZED WHAT YOU JUDGE TO BE UNPRODUCTIVE CRITICISM.

        I get it: your blog, your rules, and your style of fighting.

        THAT'S RIGHT. START YOUR OWN BLOG. IT'S FREE.

        I’ll keep my mouth shut and we can sift through countless comments calling all NCW members crazy devils in order to get to actionable criticisms. No more jeering crowd noise from me - strangely, only a crowd of one person.

        THE JUNGLE IS NOT FOR THE FEINT OF HEART.

        Delete
    12. In response to Frenchie:

      "Indeed I was answering another statement of a seemingly "moderate" point of view which bemoaned impassioned attacks as being an excuse for said bodyguards."

      That was my post you responded to. The error is yours in that you read my comment as an excuse for AAA having bodyguards. If you go back and actually read my post - in context - you'll realize that I was calling for more attention to be paid to actionable issues and resisting the urge to gossip and interpret absolutely AAA does in the most negative way possible.


      "Actually you are like Apuron: a deceiver."

      If recognizing that the focus should be on the real issues rather than taking pleasure in gossiping about AAA's tires getting slashed means I'm a deceiver, then you need a new dictionary.

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    13. In response to Frenchie:

      "For you to use partial quotes...you indeed are...doing the bidding of the people in place..."

      I use the bare minimal of quotes while maintaining the essence of what you are trying to say. Some things are better left unquoted.


      Here's the full quote:

      "For you to use partial quotes, attempt to deflect from the real issues, and taking as gospel half truth and lies the Chancery is spreading shows, that rather than being a reasonable person trying to mend fences, you indeed are a snake that moves through the grasses, doing the bidding of the people in place, Denying, Deflecting and Attacking."

      In this full quote you did the several unsavory things like:
      - calling me a snake in the grass
      - accuse me believing the gospel half-truths and lies coming from the Chancery
      - accuse me of doing the bidding of AAA and his cohorts
      - accuse me of deflecting from the real issues

      As I said in my first post, these are the types of impassioned attacks that aren't useful or productive. You somehow misunderstand my calling for a focus on the real issues as me denying and deflecting from the real issues.


      Another full quote:
      "You are more dangerous than the usual snake, because you pretend to be reasonable, and that: you are not. Actually you are like Apuron: a deceiver."

      Yet another attack on me personally, when I have not attacked you once. I won't return the favor except to repeat my stance:

      Please focus on the real issues, not the gossip and those who take pleasure in the fight. AAA has consistently favored one group of Catholics over the general community. That needs to end.

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      Replies
      1. Have at it, Frenchie. Of course one wonders what this guy/gal is doing to "end" what he/she says "needs to end."

        Delete
    14. Ahah, very interesting. In fact this has allowed us to smoke out another snake out of the grass.
      Reading the arguments and the style, there are very strong similarities with Chuck and Tim 's old friend from the U o G, the gentleman of Magyar persuasion who teaches Mathematics and had sworn never to play in jungle any more.
      The long winded, point by point, double entendre and false humbleness, with a touch of persecution is definitely "copie/colle".
      This is good news, and means the "Dianas" are desperate for arguments that would hold up to examination.
      What better way then, that creating another false debate, with the added value of perhaps trying to trip one of us.
      The old deflect and distract tactic..... OOPs
      I unfortunately am preparing for a long winter trip to the old continent, so I will not have much time to answer until I return.
      In the meantime I will let you have at it, and put this one to bed.
      Pizza

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    15. Sorry Big Z I was so rude:
      Boldog Karacsonyt

      ReplyDelete
    16. The Jungle and Diana seem to be stuck in seeing everything in either black or white, us versus them, God's for us so God must be against them.

      To me, this is still a fight of us versus us and I act accordingly.

      It's shocking that a call for reason and compassion is met with such bitterness. When I posted similar sentiments on Diana's blog, his/her response was similar to Tim's and frenchie's which is also unfortunate.

      List of attacks on me for calling for reason and compassion:
      - snake in the grass
      - noise
      - feint of heart
      - deceiver
      - long-winded
      - liar
      - deceiver
      - a UOG professor of Magyar persuasion
      - snake in the grass (again)

      Again, there are more Christian way to hold AAA accountable. It doesn't include the personal attack noise that's allowed to be posted.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Oh, get over yourself. There is no personal attack on you because you are not a person. You are an anonymous. Let me know when you start your own blog. Maybe you'll actually use your real name.

        Delete
      2. People are pretty much welcome to come here and say whatever they like. However, if you are going to come here to discredit me or what I do or how I do it, then have the integrity to stand on your hind legs and name yourself. Otherwise, go play elsewhere. BTW, that's what you said you were going to do a couple of comments back. But as everyone can see, you are unable.

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      3. Anon 5:25am, I could not help but to wonder what side you are on. You mentioned that "the Jungle and Diana seem to be stuck in seeing everything in either black or white, Us vs. Them. God's for Us so God must be against them........"

        Well, this issue has been brewing on our island for many years. The people here in the Jungle are offering views to assist US in deciding what to do. As Tim states, people are welcomed to come here, say whatever they like. Tim offers and submits evidence of the atrocities going on, yet, you and many others want to remain anonymous and not take sides. Its almost like voting for our elected officials. You either support them or don't.

        TAKE A STAND. CHOOSE YOUR SIDE. It is a Black and White thing. It is God vs. the devil.

        Delete
      4. It's us versus us. I have taken a side. Ours.

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    17. Hello Zoltan.
      A little wave from Notre Dame in Paris; after a short but fruitful stop in the Eternal City......Seems like more and more people are interested in what is happening on our little corner of paradise.....
      Met some interesting Maltese while there.....more to come .
      Good Job everybody, keep the faith, the truth shall prevail.

      ReplyDelete

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