Monday, January 12, 2015


AnonymousJanuary 12, 2015 at 8:22 PMTim, I was researching some Neocatechumenal links related to Guam and came across this: 
I find it puzzling to see Saint John Paul II celebrating the Neo Eucharist and even allowing the very things we are fighting against here at home (most especially allowing everyone to consume the Eucharist at the same time). What do you have to say about this? Was Saint John Paul II a Neo Supporter and is that a bad thing?

Thank you for bringing this up. I have answered this many times before as it is the reference people like the Dianas, either out of ignorance or a will to deceive, like to shove in our faces.

The prohibition on receiving the sacred host while seated was delivered to the leaders of the Neocatechumenal Way by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments on December 1, 2005. The date of the video is 1988.

After Vatican II there was an explosion of what the church calls "ecclesial communities", often founded by lay persons, and often very experimental. The Pontifical Council for the Laity lists over 100 of these kinds of groups which it oversees. The Neocatechumenal Way is just one of them.

In the post Vatican II confusion, there were many liturgical experiments, and often in regular parishes, not just these fringe communities. In fact, liturgical experiments persist despite recent efforts by Rome to bring them under control with the updating of the GIRM, the promulgation of Redemptionis Sacramentum, and several other documents which both prescribe and proscribe what can and cannot be done in the celebration of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

In the wake of Vatican II and in its so-called "spirit", the Church, and even the pope as we can see, permitted and even joined in many of these liberalities. However, their participation was not done to authenticate these things, but, as good popes do, to experience them in order to sift them, to find what is good, and to allow themselves to be informed by the Spirit in order to bring these many groups and their practices into the bosom of the Church.

After several years of studying and participating in the celebrations of the NCW, and after many meetings with its founders, John Paul II, in 2002, ordered a period of "ad experimentum" for the Neocatechumenal Way. This was probably occasioned by the both the growth of the NCW and with that growth a growing number of complaints from pastors and bishops as well. 

The "ad experimentum" period was imposed on the NCW in order to study it more closely and to bring it inline with the Church in order to preserve the oneness of the Church while yet admitting particular charisms. This is nothing new. The Franciscans were just a bunch of raggedy radical medieval followers of Jesus Christ until their group grew large enough for Rome to notice and "regularize" them. 

This regularization process was what Rome was in the midst of doing during the "ad experimentum" period (2002-2007), when in 2005, Rome ordered the leaders of the NCW to conform its communion rite to the liturgical books. 

Kiko Arguello publicly refused, and Archbishop Apuron made himself famous by siding with Kiko against the legitimate authority of the Magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church. Like in so many other similar situations, Archbishop Apuron was just repeating what he was told, but it didn't matter, he is a bishop and Kiko is not, so Apuron's actions had an exponentially more severe consequence.

A few weeks after the order came from Rome to eliminate the practice of sitting while receiving communion, Pope Benedict himself, aware that his instruction had been scoffed at, appealed directly to the Neocatechumenal Way to "attentively observe these norms that reflect what is provided for in the liturgical books approved by the Church." 

Kiko Arguello responded a few days later with a letter to Pope Benedict essentially telling him that he knew better and would do it his way. (Read more about that here.)

The Dianas like to point out that Rome has not stopped them, which is an admission in itself that they know it is not permitted. And of course Archbishop Apuron has never produced the document permitting the practice that he said "is somewhere" on December 15, 2014 during his pastoral visit to St. Francis Church in Yona. 

He hasn't produced it because nobody has produced it and nobody has produced it because it doesn't exist. All they can say is that Rome has not officially stopped them. How childish is that: "Well my mommy hasn't spanked me so I guess it's okay." 

Rome of course is very aware of the aberration, but it has a procedure for dealing with these things and yes, it sometimes takes many years. But woe to the soul who knows the truth and rejects it. 

So the short answer is, the NCW practice of sitting while receiving was not prohibited until 2005 and the video is from 1988. And they lecture us about obedience?


  1. Most of the kikos' slogans actually come from what they did despite John Paul II.

    On December 30, 1988, John Paul II was visiting the dioceses of Fermo and Porto San Giorgio, Italy (note: visiting the dioeceses, not the NCW). Some high-ranked NCW friend was able to "invite" John Paul II to celebrate the Mass for the "itinerant families" of the NCW departing for a kikomission.

    And the kikos actually wanted to celebrate the liturkiko, not the Roman Catholic liturgy.

    For example, John Paul II found himself celebrating on the "kikotable" with the bizarre "nine fires" menorah.

    And at the Our Father moment, when John Paul II was starting to sing "Padre nostro...", magically his microphone was shut down and the mic for Kiko and his guitar was suddenly put on. The kikos started singing Our Kikofather. This kind of "incident" is quite frequent when some prelate celebrates a Mass for the kikos. You may want to verify in the video (from 1h 51min).

    Later in the video you can see also the "communion while seating" despite John Paul II, (same video, from 1hr 52min 58sec). John Paul II only gives the Eucharist to concelebrating priests. Who were standing up, not seated.

    From 1h 54m 25s you see the "communion while seating - part II". Everyone is sitting. Note the bearded man submerging his mustaches in the large salad-bowl-kikochalice at 1h 55m.

  2. On August 30, 1990, John Paul II signed the Ogni Qualvolta letter to mgr. Cordes. The letter says: «...having seen the documentation you have presented: accepting the request addressed to me, I recognize the Neocatechumenal Way as an effective means of Catholic formation for society and for the present time.».

    The letter was published on the Acta Apostolicae Sedis (an official Vatican publication) with a footnote: «The Holy Father's intention... is not to give binding instructions to the local Ordinaries but only to encourage them to give careful consideration to the Neocatechumenal Communities. However, he leaves it to the judgement of the Ordinaries to act according to the pastoral needs of their own dioceses».

    The NCW members immediately placed a copy of that letter in every parish they could. Without the footnote. And in 2002, when the «ad experimentum» Statute was first published, many NCW asked theirselves: "weren't we already approved?"

    The Osservatore Romano refused to publish the letter. We know (but will be unable to prove until the witness publicly declares it) that the incident of the August 1990 happened soon after a sumptuous lunch with a lot of good wine, when Cordes and some kikocardinals placed the letter in the hands of JP2 asking him to sign it.

    On January 24, 1997 John Paul II mentioned the ongoing work for the Statutes of the Way.

    The draft of the Statutes was repeatedly refused until June 2002, when it was published "ad experimentum" for a limited time of five years. John Paul II was not happy with it: he did not mention it (not a speech, not a mention, not even a small congratulations message) until September 21, 2002, when he said: «...The approval of the Statutes marks the beginning of a new phase in the life of the Way. The Church now expects of you an even greater and more generous dedication...»

    In other words: the Statutes are not a "certificate of holiness" for the NCW.

    Note that the approval of the Statutes did not come from John Paul II, but from the Pontifical Council for the Laity.

    In 2005 the burden was shifted to Benedict XVI.

  3. Tripudio, Thank you for that clarification and proof.

  4. For the record. I saw a picture of neos standing with piece of bread in their palms. Yes, standing! I checked the date as sometime June 2008. Now why is that? There was a time in 2008 when they were all standing before consuming the host. They knew the rules then. Yeah! But afterward they deliberately abandoned. Exactly! Now, who can explain that?

    1. After the 2008 Statute was promulgated, the Neos had no choice but to stand since the Statute stated very clearly that they must do so:

      “Regarding the distribution of Holy Communion under the two species, the
      neocatechumens receive it standing, remaining at their place.” Art. 13. § 3.

      However, their leadership believed they could outsmart Rome - and the rest of us - by separating “receiving” from “consuming”, something never foreseen by Rome since not only is not permitted anywhere in the world, the prohibition on doing so would fall under the general admonition in the Statute that but for the exceptions specifically noted: “the approved liturgical
      books of the Roman Rite are followed.”

      These guys are really good. We have seen how they hid the real control and thus the ownership of the RMS property by cleverly inserted language. And we see in their liturgical practice how the parse and slice in order to give the appearance of obedience when in fact it is not only disobedience, it is wicked deception.

    2. Exactly! They are so deceptive. I know how they stand up and sit down now during the reception of the Eucharist. When the priest walks around with the bread, they stand up one-by-one, take the host into their palm and immediately sit back. I saw it. In the end all are seated and consume the bread at the same time. This is very irreverent, already an old story. But it is the current practice.

      However, on this pic from June 2008 something is much different. In the end of distribution they are still all STANDING and not seated. It is only possible if receiving the host, they stay in standing position and do not sit back. They actually keep standing until they have all consumed the host together. Only then, after this had happened, they sit back. I would say this is somewhat more reverent than the practice they follow now. This must have been a temporary practice just right after their Statutes were approved.

      So here is the trick question: when and why did they change from their temporary practice to their current practice. It must have happened sometime after June 2008. Why and how this change had happened? Who decided about this change? Is this an unaccounted change of liturgical practice? Or is there any paper trail of the change?

      I am very curious. I suspect it was an absolutely capricious and illegal change that should have raised the eyebrows of Vatican officials. This demonstrates very clearly how the top-down neo structure operates in mocking legitimate church authority.

    3. It is impossible to say what every community does. It is possible that immediately after the release of the statute requiring the new to stand that at least some communities tried to conform. Still, it doesn’t matter, they did not consume the host when it was given to them. This is required by the liturgical books, GIRM 161. It is quite sad that they parse the the norms and make up their own to accommodate their different belief about the eucharist. However, it is just as sad that the same norms are often violated in our own parishes without notice.

  5. key word "CELEBRATION" not "RECREATION".