Anonymous February 5, 2014 at 2:33 PM
Then be the Archbishop if you could lead the flock. You think is easy, if so, be it. Stand out there annouce the gospel. is all about the money isn't it. Economically gain. I doubt many in the parishes can give thier 10%. Your change can't even built Solomon's temple
I doubt anyone thinks its an "easy" job. But in times like these, we need leaders who can lead the flock come hell or high water. 1% or 100%, it wouldn't even scratch the surface if our leaders are wolves in sheep's clothing.
ReplyDeleteTo the neo at 2:33 PM. Actually I was taught that you have to have been ordained to rise to the position of a Bishop. The only ones we see who are gaining, economically are the neos thru your manipulation by an ever submissive archbishop who has abandoned the Catholic faithful on Guam and therefore want to also give Diocese property to the neos for the neo's financial gain. But I have to agree with you on this: because a big percentage of our Sunday collection goes to the neos thru the archbishop, we in the parish can hardly continue to afford a decent 10% that would stay with our parish.
ReplyDeleteWe also don't have illusions of living in the ancient Christian times where we think we can rebuild Solomon's Temple. This Catholic Church we continue to belong to which archbishop is wanting to transform into kiko's church, would rather just remain following Jesus' Way and remain faithful to our Magisterium the Pope who, himself has not followed kiko, nor is looking to change Rome to follow kiko.
We're contented being left alone without the interference of the neos and without the abandonment of our archbishop! I think this Church on Guam could thrive without the neos and this archbishop, so you can keep him; we don't want to "be it".
No my change cannot build Solomon's temple, nor can it continue to support your seminary. It can't even pay my bills let alone yours. You feed out of our hands, let the mission support you.
ReplyDeleteI may not be able,to,give 10%' but I give what I can. It doesn't stop on just Suday donations it continues when the parish priest sakes for help. Fork out your money and give more than you can.
What gospel,does the Archbishop preach? Oh yeah he preaches on how to go off,island. He preaches and lauds himself about his accomplishments. Which is I don't know what. I guess I need to go to the airport to hear his sermon.
Seems like every month he is gone. Gone where? If he can travel he can say more masses. Health is not an issue anymore. If health is the issue hang up your cloak and retire. For someone who has health issues, he can travel a lot.
You can all ".............
Mr. Anonymous at 2:33 you are skirting the issue entirely. This forum is for dialog about the issues. You can enlighten us with the truth instead of being a "thumb thug" ranting because there is a disagreement among us.
ReplyDeleteWe're not interested in building Solomon's Temple - YOU ARE! You came here to STEAL from the people of Guam! All of this dissension is so disturbing and so sickening, and the cause of this terrible disease is the arrogance and greed of the Archbishop and the members of the Way who have deeply fallen into Kiko's and Carmen's mind traps.
ReplyDeleteSince our people don't have the money for you to leech off of, then you should pack your bags and get on the next boat out of here. Haven't you taken enough from our people? And now, the Archbishop and his not so smart advisors want to take even more...this is pathetic!!
With regard to this archbishop's globe-trotting pastime, look what inquiring minds came upon: Pope's advice to some newly ordained Bishops, last year: “Espouse your community, be profoundly bonded to it!,” the Pope said concluding his address. “I beg you, please, to stay among your people. Avoid the scandal of being 'airport bishops'!”
ReplyDeleteFull article here: http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/pope-francis-avoid-the-scandal-of-being-airport-bishops
GOOD LORD EVERYONE .. STOP ALREADY!
ReplyDeleteStop what? The truth? You want us to basically shut up and take it like a man. Don't make waves. It's wrong, but lets just get along. We have a duty to speak out no matter how painful the truth is. We must try to resolve our issues charitably. Stop? No way! Not now. Not after what happened to Fr. Paul. What poor local priest will be destroyed next?
DeletePope Francis told us to go out and make a big mess. We obey the Pope. The Pope meant make a big mess like Jesus did - confronting what is wrong in our world and we will confront the sinful mess the Archbishop has created.
DeleteGOOD LORD, EVERYONE .. STOP ALREADY!!!
ReplyDeleteNo, we've been quiet far too long, and Church here has reached the tipping point. Love and truth are inseparable, you know.
DeleteWhy? We should we stop? We must pursue until the Truth prevails. So, let's keep whipping until the Temple is cleansed!
ReplyDeleteMost of the comments I've read have been anonymous....Those that put the Jesus on the Cross will be remembered until the end of time. They apostles were brave enough to follow the ways of Jesus. Just on this page already are two Anons that are parts of the big crack in the Roman Catholic Church...this community is being divided and the money for their riches are made from the collections and backs on the RC Church, ta king away money that can be used for maintenance, etc. If we don't stand together, then the church that we love will be taken over by the new and greedier newbies. We should print all of the stuff that's being done and send It directly to the Pope. If that fails, then we should pass a petition about the problems we're feeling because of the newbies and meet at the Plaza with candles and place a call to the Pope. Little bits of anon posts mean nothing. We have to be brave enough for Jesus and stand up for the church He built. I post on FB frequently and have used my name. It hurts that my Underwood grandparents did everything they could to help the church(My grandmother's gold was melted to give Sta. Marian' Kamalen a crown after the war. My grandfather was a founder of the still existing St. Vincent , society for the poor, it was my aunt Mary that co-founded The Religious Sisters of Mercy, Cathedral Grade School and the Academy of Our Lady high schools for girls.....I still see my grandfather chasing away the stray dogs so that they wouldn't scare away the people . He and my uncle Pedro Martinez were the first men who were knighted by Pope Pius.....this all means something to the very core of my being....I am not spiritually exhausted, If the Pope allows the Neons the right to turn our church up-side down, I will follow his wishes. I also attach me name to a priest I never met and will probably never meet, but my heart breaks that this man was publicly humiliated and for months, he's been a nomad. We have to, if just for principle, stand for his rights as a man and priest. You just can't kick around a priest because you want his big parish to be that of the cult-like New Wavers...Shame on us for turning our backs on the Roman Catholic Church.
ReplyDeleteMr. Rohr I am a european catholic neocatechumenal. If you are looking for the good of the Church of Christ and his people, avoid controversy, they are useless. On the contrary may appear as a search for vainglory and notoriety. The Church has its own hierarchy and its institutions. If you have something to complain about on the Way or their diocese, can claim to apostolic nuncio or directly to s.e.r. msr. Pietro Parolin secretary of state and the head of the nuncio, s.e.r. msr. Marc Ouellet Prefect for the Congregation for Bishops and s.e.r. msr. Stanislav Rylko, prefect of the Pontifical Council for the Laity, or s.e.r msr. Fernando Filoni Prefect of "Propaganda Fide" is simple.
ReplyDeleteGood Day!
1. If one is "looking for the good of the Church of Christ and his people", they'll find it where the Tabernacle resides.
Delete2. The best way to "avoid controversy" is to remove it at it's source, and not pretend it doesn't exist.
3. . . .and yes, the controversy being perpetuated at the source is "useless."
4. That source is where the liturgical abuses reside.
5. Appearing to seek "vainglory and notoriety?" I pray you learn to understand the irony in your accusation.
6. The Church has its own hierarchy: It's time the NCW recognize your admission and recognize that Church authority does not include Kiko and Carmen.
7. Love is never persecution. I know you didn't mention it, but it's well known that it's the automatic (and exasperating) response of the NCW. It's as effective as the boy who cried, "Wolf!"
Whatever happened to loving the enemy? To turning the other cheek? To praying for others rather than cursing?
ReplyDeleteThe abomination is in the temple. It must be driven out.
DeleteLucio:
ReplyDeleteControversy will distill the Truth. If only we had controversy during the massive sex abuse scandal that permeated the Church, we could have saved the lives of many young boys. But we chose to look the other way---avoiding controversy as you say---and allowed Evil to attack the innocent. We should never tolerate Evil especially if it is being imposed on the weak and defenseless. You say you are European. Where would you be today if the United States avoided controversy and allowed Hitler to terrorize Europe permanently. Hmm...you still think controversy is useless?
Mr. "Do not European" in matters: disciplinary, liturgical, doctrinal, the Church has specific institutions that deal and you should contact them, it is so for two thousand years
ReplyDeleteAnonymus:
ReplyDeletefor doctrinal issues:Congregatio pro doctrina fidei
for liturgical issues:Congregatio de culto divino et disciplina sacramentorum
to governance issues:Congregatio pro episcopis
Stop!........for catholic.
Mr. Lucio. I highly doubt that you would be intruding into our affairs if you weren't trying to protect the Neocatechumenal Way. But since you have intruded into our affairs, then it is important that you know that for over 10 years, letters have been sent to our Nuncio. In fact, the Nuncio is being advised of every single post on this blog. The Nuncio has also acknowledged receipt of many letters.
DeleteYou should also know that their is currently a canon law suit on its way to the Congregation for the Clergy in Rome. In short, for over a decade, the people of Guam have been crying to all the channels that you lecture us on contacting, but with little relief. The people of Guam have now reached a breaking point.
The problem we have in Guam is unique. Whereas most people can appeal to their bishop, we cannot. The bishop here is the source of the problem. And now it has gone beyond the mere abuses and imperialist practices of your "Way". It has become a huge question of the transfer of assets worth tens of millions of dollars from the long-suffering people of Guam to the masters of your "Way". The silence of Rome is now complicit in the rupture of our local church and people are ready to take to the streets and walk out of Masses.
Ten years ago I met with a neo-priest and tried to resolve what I knew would be a coming storm, the storm we are now experiencing. His attitude was Marxist: the neo-revolution would require the destruction of the old before it could be replaced by the new.
The reason why this blog has become such a focal point is because never before in the 400 history of the church, have the people of Guam EVER protested against their bishop. And until now, despite 25 plus years of abuse, they have kept silent. But no more.
As pointed out above, the fact that the church does not listen until their is a hostile public explosion, was well-evidenced in the clergy sex scandal, a scandal that diseased the church for nearly 50 years. The church only acted when it got sued. We will do the same.
Thank you for your input, but you do not belong here.
Great response, Mr. Rohr. I am originally from Guam but I have not lived there for several years. I am very much saddened and distressed over what is happening with the Catholic Church on the island. Archbishop Apuron is ignoring the concerns of the faithful. This is not right! He is the Shepherd and he is not shepherding the flock. He is in fact, causing them to scatter! I understand fully the frustrations that led to this blog. Many people have been privy to these abuses, lies and deceits, have spoken out and were ignored. Then there are those who are clueless and need to know the truth. The truth needs to continue to come out for the good of the Catholic Church on the island. Lucio states that we should be avoiding controversy for the good of the Church. Well, Lucio, tell that to Archbishop Apuron. The controversy began with him and his choice to favor the Neos to the point of alienating those outside of it. Furthermore, the Archbishop escalated the controversy with his unjust ousting of Fr. Paul Gofigan and now, ignoring all these concerns with his silence. If you have any care at all about avoiding controversy, please contact your fellow Neo, the Archbishop and ask him to right the wrongs!
DeleteDear Tim, and many suffering Chamorros on Guam,
DeleteIt is very comforting indeed to see the Catholic faithful on Guam finally facing injustice and inequities.
Your points Tim are always very well argued, but most of all extremely instructive for the person(s) that do not have a profound understanding of the ins and outs of the complex issues in the Archdiocese of Guam.
I have not been on Guam for many years, but I have kept many good Chamorro friends on the island and in the USA. Many of them ex-seminarians that decided not to pursue their vocation in part, or wholly because of this Archbishop. The tipping point for me has been the heavy handed attempt to get rid of father Paul, who knew the Neos and the Archbishop wanted him out of the way, but could not appreciate the level of unchristian hatred, lies and slander that they would use in order to reach their goal. Frankly, that a so-called leader like this Archbishop, could stoop himself and the position he is supposed to hold, to such evil and morally unacceptable means is beyond the understanding of most Catholics. Most of us try to live our lives daily according to the values and teachings of our faith. It is not bearable to witness the evil doing of a prince of the Church, whose duty it is to lead his flock.
Unfortunately the Shepperd has let the wolves enter the confinement of this Church, and encourages the wholesome slaughter of his helpers.
This in itself totally disqualify him of any leadership he pretends to hold on this beautiful island.
Father Paul will soon file his lawsuit against the Archbishop in civil court. I understand his lawyers are some of the best the island has, Catholics themselves and extremely determined to right a wrong done in the names of all Catholics on Guam. Like you say Tim, this is one of the only way, the Church finally react when unjust and evil leaders abuse of their powers. The time for silence and prayers, comes to a close, time for action is now. I will continue to help from my present location to stop this blight from spreading on Guam, but also beyond.
A European born American Catholic that respect and support his brothers and sisters on Guam