Tuesday, August 26, 2014

SCHISM? ALREADY IN PROGRESS

Is there a schism in Guam's Catholic church?

Posted: Aug 25, 2014 3:17 PM PGTUpdated: Aug 25, 2014 5:06 PM PGT
by Sabrina Salas Matanane

Guam - Close to 300 people have signed off on a petition and letter that was sent to the archbishop hoping they'll see "their way". Yet another controversial document has been posted on the JungleWatch blog, which focuses on the dealings with the local Catholic church. (More)

76 comments:

  1. Way to go St. Francis Church!! Keep Kiko Out!!

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  2. Discrimimation and full of hate. You might as well call yourself bigots.

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    1. When our local priests, including the Caps who have been here for decades, then yes I will become one who will discriminate. Why should I want a priest who cannot give decent homilies, or only know and favor community members? I will fight for my priest!

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    2. Parishioners of Yona were smart to make their position clear after learning about AAA's intention, using his authority, to make every parish Neo. BTW, Neos are welcome so there is no discrimination or hate here. It's a matter of preference.

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    3. Ring, ring! Hello pot? This is kettle. You're black!

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    4. AnonymousAugust 26, 2014 at 7:40 AM
      Discrimimation and full of hate. You might as well call yourself bigots.

      Why bother, you already have. But then this is a "hate blog", so what did you expect? Run along now over to Diana's fairyland.

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  3. All the other parishes need to follow.

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  4. Mr. Tanaka is right on the mark. The archbishop is the central person of the church in Guam, her shepherd. The archbishop is supposed to govern all, serve all, and love all, sacrificing himself in the process. Unfortunately for Guam, our archbishop does none of it. He is so lost in his own righteousness that he believes anyone who questions him or questions his actions and his beloved NCW is to be condemned and vilified. What good and loving shepherd would treat his priests the way he has treated Fr. Paul and Monsignor James? Cold, callous, vindictive, arrogant, mean, and barbaric are only some of the adjectives to describe his actions, none of which are attributes of a good bishop.

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    1. But Tanaka is not a Bishop! Get it to your thick skull. You created this segregation!

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    2. Excuse me but it wasn't Mr. Tanaka who told the Prefect for the Congregation of Divine Worship and the Sacraments to go screw himself. The "segregation" started then.

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  5. So Tim where's your flight confirmation of Fr. Wadeson? Did he really leave after the 23 of July? Can you come with this? So SNAP can see this since your part of the mix of this faulty accusation.

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    1. Hmmm. Don't you think you should probably put "it" back, Mr. Former Director?

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    2. As Diana writes, the jungle accused them of hiding Father Wadeson in the seminary and now they want the jungle to produce the flight confirmation?? Of what may I ask? The flight confirmation from Agana to Yona? LOL!!

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    3. The Archbishop should post Father Wadeson's travel docs and boarding pass! Then We can finally put this issue to rest. If they don't, then they just leave room for speculation from the people of Guam.

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    4. I hope Dennis didn't use his connects to hide the truth. This would be a coverup and show what these NEO's are really all about. God is Not Sleeping and neither are his people in the Jungle.

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    5. I smell another lie from the Neo leaders yet again. Show us the proof? Or are we not worthy of the truth????

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    6. It is not about hate it it is about True or False

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  6. Who is discriminating and full of hate?

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    1. Go home and fix the problems in your own country. There is a bigger mess there....Like I said to Diana, have these seminarians clean their own homes before you clean ours. Maybe you know you have it good here that you don't want to return home. Are you afraid of being captures by the ISIS and beheaded? Are you afraid of the drug cartels? Why don't you want to return home?

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  7. As an outsider, it's sad to see all these sheep attacking their own shepherd...I guess they're goats instead of sheep...or wolves dressed as sheep. I do not see the ill-treated Christ in this flock. STOP ATTACKING EACH OTHER! You're making Guam sound like a chicken coup!! If you want change start from within yourselves! You expect a better bishop, don't TELL him the good actions you expect from him, SHOW him your faithful fruits!! By blabbing all his "wrong actions" you are humiliating him...God will do justice for it belongs to Him...
    Fellow Catholics, pray for the church in Guam!!

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    1. LOL. Nothing better to do in your country? Gotta be a neo. Who else presumes to preach like this.

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    2. Blah blah blah. .. outsider! You are either another NeoCancer or a sympathizer. Either way, see yourself out!

      Animals, may they be sheep and goats, do not attack unless provoked. We have been patient for a very long time.

      So if you are going to "pray" for us on Guam. Do it, without chastising us for NOT allowing the Neo lies to permeate any longer!

      It's as if you are on your knees, with hands clasped, looking around and yelling, "Look, I'm a great Catholic, I'm praying now! "

      Seriuosly, the Arch and his Neos bring out the stupid in people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  8. Here is a comment from the same KUAM news story:

    "In the Roman Catholic Church there are many doors to enter. The Capuchins, Neo Catechumenal Way-NCW, Opus Dei, etc. As they are all approved by Rome, there should be no animosity between brothers. Anyone that spews hatred or division against any 'reality' of the Church still has an infantile faith. What I hear from Mr. Rohr is only self-righteous hatred towards the Bishop and others without seeking reconciliation, communion, peace nor a desire to hear from Rome. Personally I have only heard good things about the Way from the Vatican, the priests ordained in it and the work they do in the whole world, not only in Guam. Does everyone know that Rome opened the first NCW seminary? The only impartial and objective judge capable of imputing justice in Guam is the Vatican delegate. So I beg everyone listening to heed the call of Christ to be ONE (church), not one of Rohr, Guam, Peter or Paul."

    Interestingly enough, someone makes some good points here. But hey...this Guam and we have do it our way, and only our way. We're complacent with the way we practice our Catholicism. We want to choose our preferred priest for our parishes. We want to dictate how the parishes SHOULD be operated. We want the Archbishop to do as WE say, and when it doesn't happen then we'll go straight to the Pope and tell him to do what we say! Let's go and arrest the Archbishop; let's flog him; let's enrobe him with a royal robe and place a crown of throne on his head; let's make him "parade" to Mt. Lam Lam and CRUCIFY him. And then if the Vatican dislikes this - let's do the same to the Pope. Let's do what our ancestors did to Blessed Diego De San Vitores or what the Japanese did to Fr. Jese Baza Duenas. Come on my fellow Catholics - let's follow Caiaphas and not allow a change in our Catholicism, a change that even if helps people find God in their lives, let's not let this happen. We are Catholics...we are the chosen people of God here on Guam...like the Jews, who rejected Christ when He came to bring about a change in people's lives. Let's go...one people for one purpose.

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    1. Oh, really, Archbishop. Can't you find someplace else to post? What's wrong with Diana's place? Nobody there? BTW, I left a reply:

      Alexander, feel free to demonstrate where I have shown "only self-righteous hatred towards the Bishop". I have simply let the Bishop speak for himself. It's just that no one EVER dreamed a bishop would actually speak that way.

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    2. No, we just want you to tell the truth, treat our brothers with compassion, and be a TRUE SHEPHERD! for all not just a few. When was the last time you spent days in the parishes, like you're supposed to? You were instructed to caress your sheep so you can smell like your sheep, yet at the first opportunity for a photo op, you run to it, airport bishop! Stop "LORDING IT OVER THEM AS THE PAGANS DO"
      Be a servant to ALL as you so fondly like to put after your name. There is only one gospel, and the one your preaching is not the same.
      Your neo priests are so immersed into our culture that they speak such eloquent English/Chamorro, telling us that our culture is the problem and you did not defend us so you must agree then,no?
      Typical Spanish/European arrogant holier than thou attitudes, trying to force your crap down our throats, its making me vomit. It's Magellan all over again.

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    3. Tim you know he or she made a good point. Can't deny that.

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    4. Really? What point was that? It's full of neo-spin as usual. Ex. "Rome opened up the first NCW seminary." Typical kiko-speak. Rome did no such thing. Kiko opened up the first NCW seminary in Rome. That's a lot different. The fact remains, Archbishop Apuron rejects the authority of the Magisterium and embraces the illicit teaching and practices of Kiko Arguello, and does so every time he celebrates his neo-eucharist. Can't deny that :)

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    5. There was no point made. They created a scenario that does not exist, and then proceeded to respond to their own created scenario.

      As far as the comment on KUAM: another manipulated and wholly incorrect analysis of the situation. Truthfully, it was just another opportunity to trash Tim Rohr. They do this to distract from the conversation, never addressing the problems on hand.

      Problem is, even if Tim went away and remained silent, the problems would still exist. Who would they gnash their teeth at then?

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    6. Just stay tune your defamation will soon end

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  9. Puh-lease! Archbishop Apuron (BARF!!!!) Is HARDLY Jesus! To even compare him in the tiniest way is nothing short of IDIOTIC!

    9:44! STOP yourself!

    If the Arch, TO YOU, is Jesus, then Kiko IS YOUR GOD!

    SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!

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  10. "let's follow Caiaphas and not allow a change in our Catholicism"

    if by "change in our Catholicism" you mean the practices and beliefs that neocats are reported to be doing and teaching—and which so far they haven't denied—then what you are talking about is dangerously close to non-Catholicism. and that's why we oppose it.

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  11. Hey, you want go to a coffee and then go rob a bank?

    What do you mean, "No?" You don't like coffee?

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  12. and by the way, on "let's follow Caiaphas ..."

    even more sad and disgraceful is the attack on the very authority and Magisterium of the Church. calling for faithfulness to the instruction and teaching of the Catholic Church is following caiaphas? really? look at your own foot, because you just keep shooting it.

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  13. The neos are for disaffected Catholics. The people of Yona parish are not disaffected and completely satisfied with the spiritual guidance they have received from their Capuchin priests. The neos are not needed in their parish. That fact is not an insult to the neos but they take it as such because they are taught to repudiate any groups that do not want them. They need to respect the wishes of those who choose a different way as Pope Francis admonished them in Feb 2014 "The freedom of each person must not be forced, and even the eventual choice of someone who decides to seek, outside of the Way, other forms of Christian life that help him to grow in the response to the call of the Lord must be respected."
    Eileen Benavente-Blas

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    1. Excellent point, eileenbb! Fr. Pius' website "Look At the Fruits" (http://www.fatherpius.littleway.ca/neo6.html) states, "The Neocatechumenal Way is an instrument in the parishes, in the service of the bishops, to bring back to the faith all those who have abandoned it."

      Two things are worth mentioning: (1) On Guam the NCW is NOT "in the service" of the Archbishop; and (2) The parishioners of St. Francis Church in Yoña have NOT "abandoned" their faith and definitely do not need the NCW influence in their parish.

      If the NCW here on Guam did as Fr. Pius describes — "BRING BACK to the faith all those WHO HAVE ABANDONED IT," instead of trying to pluck new members out of the pews — I think there would be less resistance among the "regular" Catholics, if the liturgical irregularities in the NCW can be ignored.

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    2. "The Neocatechumenal Way is an instrument in the parishes....to bring back to the faith all those who have abandoned it."

      I wonder why the archbishop joined?

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  14. Yep! We have a personal problem, by not liking the Archbishop's style!

    The Diversity In The Catholic Church

    An anonymous poster made an excellent comment under my last post found here. The poster made an excellent point. There is much diversity in the Catholic Church, but all are one in Christ Jesus. Despite the variety and diversity found in the Body of Christ, all recognize that one same Holy Spirit. The poster also ask a very important question in the end.

    AnonymousAugust 26, 2014 at 9:20 AM

    There is no such thing as Kiko teachings or Kiko-catechism. Everything that Kiko has preached has been approved by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. In particular, the tidbits that Mr. Rohr likes to quote come from the first book approved. This book was approved by Cardinal Raztinger himself when he was Prefect of the Congregation, and everything in it is referenced with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. What Kiko says IS Catholic.

    The Neocatechumenal Way is a tool for evangelization, and the Archbishop is using this tool. Maybe some do not like HIS style. but then that's a personal problem not a doctrinal one. As many have already said, the NCW is not for everyone! not everyone is comfortable with the style of Opus Dei but it IS Catholic: not everyone is comfortable with the style of the NCW, but the difference in style does not prevent collaboration and friendship between the two. The problem is not the style in which we live our Faith, it is the spirit. Oratorian priests and the Jesuits are externally completely different, yet St. Philip Neri and St. Ignatius Loyola were great friends because they had the same spirit. Don Giussani and Kiko had a great relationship, yet Communion and Liberation and the NCW are completely different. It speaks to the real catholicity of the Church that it allows for such variety.

    If you do not like the NCW style, what is preventing you from collaboration and friendship like so many others in the world?

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    1. It is NOT from the approved book. The date on the book is 1999. The "approved" version was approved in 2012. There is no publicly available copy of the approved version. And for good reason. Kiko and his catechists still teach from the original unapproved version and don't want their members to know this.

      Again, it would be so easy to refute us. Simply produce the catechism that you teach from and show us where we are wrong. But then we would still have the problem of the neo-priests and what they actually say and do, wouldn't we.

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    2. And we should do this why? Because you ask? Oh Tim, you have so much authority.

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    3. If you want to see what "the neos" teach, just attend a catechist for the hell of it. Prove us wrong by actually having first hand experience.

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    4. Because that would put an end to the division. That would prove that you are right and I am wrong. Simple. I would have nothing else to say. So you see, I have NO authority. I only have this blog. The bishop has all the authority. He could put an end to the scandal of this division in an instant.

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    5. @12:00 pm....Diana, Shoo! Know your lingo by now.

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    6. EXACTLY! You only have this BLOG. But then again don't ever stop Tim. You saving the people who have been hurt for many many years. So sad how they can't open their own mouths. If it was an issue for awhile, they should have said something.

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    7. Yay! Your stll in the freezer Tim. but who knows who have every right to throw names at Anon. So sad to see that you think everyone in the way are against you, and you only seek out the names you wish it could be.

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    8. At 12:05. That's just it. We DON'T want to see what the Neo's teach anymore than I want to take my daughters to a brothel to show them the evil of it. Get over your drivel. You sound like the people that say you can't criticize abortion if you've never had one. Sick.

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    9. 12:13. Bingo. Looks like I hit the nail on the head with that one. Thanks for letting me know. But for the record. If you won't name yourself then I get to name you. That's the cost of anonymity.

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    10. So now you are comparing the NCW with a brothel? Ha. is that it? What else is there? Tim you show so much hatred for the NCW. I thought this was about the Archbishop?

      Are you only against the NCW because the Archbishop shows full support of it?

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    11. Ok keeping thinking the way you do Tim. You'll be a great man in the near future... ha.

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    12. You're a little late to the party, aren't you.

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    13. Ok, 12:19. Will do. Ha.

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    14. All the kikonuts seem to be out in full force today. Keep it up kikos! We'll keep pushing back....and there are a lot of us. Keep talking your crazy talk, please do so. You just make everyone who's sound of mind confirm how crazy you all are. Every night I pray for the day our island will be delivered from this madness!

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    15. Meanwhile "Nero" is playing the fiddle while the Archdiocese burns.

      When will the Archbishop speak to this decades long problem with the relationship with the NCW and Catholics on Guam?

      Why does he keep allowing the situation to get to this level?

      The NCW has become an idol to those who are truly seeking the Truth, and our Archbishop is allowing it by remaining silent.

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    16. 12:18 Brothel have women, ncw have men....but there's one who want's to be the girl 'diana', hmmm pretty kiko, I mean cuckoo if you ask me.

      You're correct, now we are against you kiko-ncw's because of the archbishop, as the Father of this archdiocese he's responsible for this division and he has done absolutely NOTHING to rectify it except further spite brothers against brothers.
      So the FATHER of LIES rears his ugly head.

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    17. All neocrats and neorobots, you can keep apuron, David ,Adrian and all your neo priests and seminarians, just leave all the non neos and non neo priests alone and leave our Catholic Church, build your own church somewhere and stop using the Catholic Churches with your own kiko agenda.

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  15. If DIANA is just an ordiary young woman, then why is she here using the language WE were hiding him..."By the way, I am still waiting for the jungle to produce the confirmation flight of Father John since they accused us of hiding him in the Seminary. They have not yet produced that confirmation flight." What does an anonymous young woman have to do with such a decision?? Hmmm?

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  16. Here's the difference as I see it between the two laymen and their supporters:
    TIM ROHR IS DEFENDING THE EXISTING CHURCH'S TEACHINGS!
    KIKO ARGUELLO IS TRYING TO CHANGE THE CHURCH'S TEACHINGS!

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    1. 11:20 ...Bam! You got it!

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  17. Hey y'all... I was told by Father Mike Crisostomo to "not pay attention to Tim Rohr. Don't feed into his blog. He just likes the attention."

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    1. All the kikonuts seem to be out in full force today. Keep it up kikos! We'll keep pushing back....and there are a lot of us. Keep talking your crazy talk, please do so. You just make everyone who's sound of mind confirm how crazy you all are. Every night I pray for the day our island will be delivered from this madness!

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    2. Did he also say to cite his name while cowering behind the Anonymous name?

      If you don't have the courage to use your name, don't smite someone else name.

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    3. Micheal would not ever say that. He would instead ask you to pray for our island and our faith. Anon, you are the proverbial troublemaker wanting to see a fight. Go away, bully.

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  18. I guess we should just forget the archbishops' hatred for Fr Paul and Monsignor James. Forget the Diana blog which spews more untrue and hateful words. Forget that the Archbishop rejects our local men from joining the seminary. Forget that the archbishop has not summited a financial reports since 2005 to Rome for the church. Forget that the archbishop harbored an accused sex offender. Forget that the archbishop authorized an unauthorized celebration of the Holy Mass. Forget that Santa Rita parish lied to their parishioners about the whereabouts of the statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe. Forget that the bishop authorized a hostile take over of the Basilica. Forget that the archbishop, father Adrian and Monsignor david do not associate themselves with the parishioners especially Agana. Forget that the parishioners of Yona don't want a hostile take over of their parish. Forget the homosexual remarks made a against Father Efren and Father Paul. Forget the hard work put into the museum only to have it closed down because of no support from the incoming administration.
    Who is the evil one? Anymore forgetting and I will develop amnesia.

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  19. Pale' Mike CrisostomoAugust 26, 2014 at 3:42 PM

    TO: Anonymous-August 26, 2014 at 11:58 AM
    FROM: Pale' Mike

    FOR THE RECORD: Hey y'all... I was told by Father Mike Crisostomo to "PAY attention to Tim Rohr. Don't feed into Diana's blog. SHE just likes the attention."

    Further, reveal your name, or at least private message me and tell me I am wrong. Otherwise, don't use my name.

    Thank you TIM. My prayers for our local Catholic Church.

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    1. Pale' Mike Crisostomo — Thank you very much for clarifying which blog is worth reading. I found it strange that Anonymous at 11:58 AM would claim that you deemed JungleWatch not worth one's attention when you had posted here previously. Your endorsement of this blog which "Diana" insists was labeled a "hate blog" by the Nuncio is much appreciated.

      I hope Anonymous at 11:58 PM who pulled this prank will do the right thing and apologize to you — at least privately if not here where he/she misrepresented you.

      God bless you!

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    2. Thanks Pale Mike! We are behind you! Safe travels

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  20. Pale' Mike, a true Father of our Holy Catholic Church!

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  21. Everyday the Neocatechumenal Way gets one step closer to being outed as a protestant movement thanks to the brothers from Guam.

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    1. .....And the rest of the world thanks you for your courage.

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    2. They should just go already!! The only reason the NCW claims themselves as Catholic is to use the church's resources. They say hey, you're not being forced to join the neo, but guess what? Even if we don't, who gets affected anyway? Everytime they use the church facilities for all their weekly "celebrations", who pays for the increase in the utility bills? Do they?

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    3. And KUDOS to St. Francis Church!!

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  22. Pale Mike that was another deceitful neo.

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  23. There is a schism now in the church of Guam.

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  24. Thank You Pale Mike for clearing up that mess. Wow, thank goodness I don't follow the Neo's. There is enough hatred in the world and by the way they reply on Tim's blog they're not peace makers at all. Come to think of it neither is the Archie.

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  25. Neo only wish to use the money of Guam Catholics. Use common sense. No where else in the world can they find a bishop who has sold his soul to this sect. Unfortunate that he has damaged the archdiocese at the same time.

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  26. Today we celebrate the Memorial of the Beheading of John the Baptist..let us continue to pray on this day for all priest who speak up for the TRUTH! Figuratively speaking, they too are being beheaded!

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